Overarching balance changes

[popolacarotte]

No, to everything.

[Eathisword]

Not in order of importance...

#1 Cleanse should be mirrored as to what it can cleanse between mirrored classes. WP cant cleanse any inc heal debuff, DoK should not cleanse any inc heal debuff. They are the tankiest and should rely on squishier AM/RP/Zeal/sham to cleanse those.

#2 Morale 1 and 2 should be mirrored on all archetypes. Special OP morale like Rock clutch, Wingz of Heaven, Khaine's Withdrawal, etc. should be M3 or M4. I have nothing against classes having racial/lore unique stuff, but being able to pop it every minute causes strong imbalances. BO/chosen morale pump, maybe change. Idk.

#3 Adding a different scaling to CC immunity. For example, a normal punt should give 30s. A super punt should give more. A **** punt, like BO and SM, should give less. Single target root that cannot break on damage (rock clutch, Mara/WL M1, Champion's challenge) should give longer immunity than AoE root that breaks on damage. Just as a 3s KD should give 30s and a 5s KD should give 50s. Atm, there is no scaling for movement based immunity. And from what i see, the immunity from Hard CC like KD and stun are all broken. WH/WE 5s stun give a 8s immunity, whereas IB 3s KD gives a 40s immunity. And so on and so forth.

#4 Detaunts should be equal for all archetypes. Tank = 20s challenge. Mdps = 5s AoE detaunt on a 20s CD. Healers/Rdps = single target detaunt 15s / 15s CD. Right now it is a clusterfuck as some classes get OP detaunts and other classes completely get shafted. All healer should get an ''oh ****'' button (50% damage reduction for 10s, ie. not a detaunt, but a buff) like Grimnir's Shield and the Zealot equivalent on a very long CD. If this is not possible, then make detaunt a blessing or an enchantement so it can be stripped.

IMO, guard should not be changed, except maybe its range or the damage done to the tank (could be mitigable). Any change in the amount of damage reduction guard provides would simply screw over everything else from 6v6 to scens to oRvR.

[Shadowgurke]

Right now cleanse works by prioritizing the oldest debuff, but as far as I know there is no way of showing which that is even with buffhead, without actually watching them come in from a clean slate.

Are you saying you want to know what is getting cleansed, or that how cleanse functions should be changed?

I haven't really made up my mind on what exactly would be the best solution. The issue right now is that WP/DoK just spam their cleanse on CD while single target is mainly used to try to get rid of BB before it hits. One small quality of life change would be an indicator on what buff you actually cleanse when you press the button beforehand. But that is not the overarching balance change I had in mind. I would probably remove the Hex/Curse/Ailment restriction that feels somewhat arbitrary and makes certain classes stronger and weaker for no real reason. Instead I would let them cover specific debuffs. For example snare removal, heal debuff removal etc. I would probably remove Dots from the list of cleansable debuffs completely. This will buff dot classes and clear a lot of the clutter debuffs. It's just one idea though, and as I said it requires quite a bit of balancing around it. Probably too much work.

[Guard]Its mostly a free 50% damage reduction without downsides.

It's a 50% damage transfer at it's core. Tanks specifically allocate stats to minimize the transferred damage. Strong, class defining 100% needed ability? Yes. Free? Hardly.

[Jaycub]

#3 Adding a different scaling to CC immunity. For example, a normal punt should give 30s. A super punt should give more. A **** punt, like BO and SM, should give less. Single target root that cannot break on damage (rock clutch, Mara/WL M1, Champion's challenge) should give longer immunity than AoE root that breaks on damage. Just as a 3s KD should give 30s and a 5s KD should give 50s. Atm, there is no scaling for movement based immunity. And from what i see, the immunity from Hard CC like KD and stun are all broken. WH/WE 5s stun give a 8s immunity, whereas IB 3s KD gives a 40s immunity. And so on and so forth.

I agree with this, although im in a different boat with the timers, I think they are too harsh at the moment and nothing should give anymore than 30 seconds.

[sablasni]

aoe punt sw/bo have are useless they just give free immunity at least they could be given a more range

[Penril]

aoe punt sw/bo have are useless they just give free immunity at least they could be given a more range

They are not useless. Sometimes the enemy melee train catches one of your groupmates and use a KD on him; at this point you use the AoE punt and give your friend enough time to get up and flee while your healers spam heals on him.

SM/BO AoE punt is not meant to separate an enemy tank from his guarded ally. It serves a totally different purpose, and it does quite well at it.

If you want to blame something, blame all those stupid BOs/SMs that love to run around giving away free immunities.

[sablasni]

i understand but even in the best conditions when u punt melee train they quickly are back on the target, unless you punt them off some cliff

[sablasni]

so my suggestion would be to make aoe punt range somewhere between where its now and the super punt

[peterthepan3]

Naturally I'll choose cleanse, as that single ability alone effectively renders several classes to useless levels.

[Jaycub]

so my suggestion would be to make aoe punt range somewhere between where its now and the super punt

Are all AoE punts the same range?