Addon and Nerf Button setup pt 1

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wargrimnir
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Re: Addon and Nerf Button setup pt 1

Post#21 » Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:12 am

Toldavf wrote:I do wish they would ban this add on. It really takes allot of the skill out of the game.
It raises the skill floor for those who use it minimally. Less buttons, less awkward octopi-hands needed to use all your skills. I use about 30 keybinds for skills instead of clicking around for things. 1-6, shift+1-6, qertyfg, shift+qertyfg, and f1-f4. That's two full 12 button bars + Morales, and it's still not enough to have all the options at my disposal. NB can add a few skills to the same button that turn 1-2-3 into 1-1-1, but it's only good for a specific situation. A few more skills for 4-5-6 that turns into 2-2-2, again, only for certain situations. So far, this is really basic skill combos that many other MMO's use effectively to reduce the number of bound keys. In the BW/Sorc example, trying to finish off a target and using your 3s cast for a large burst isn't going to work if it's preceded by your 1-2 combo before it. You need it on a separate key anyway.

Lots of skills are conditional, or wouldn't be used at every opportunity efficiently. Some things, like skills that only have a decent effect when used positionally are a pain in combat where you're not sure if your target is strafing so you get a back/side attack, where other skills require such positioning to even fire off. Those skills are poorly designed, and NB conditionals can alleviate their uselessness. Skills that are effectively useless when spammed are here as well, like your trusty Engineer spamming Acid Bomb, add a short internal cooldown and you no longer use it constantly.

The thing about NB that is troubling is the ability to codify high stress situations with the use of conditionals. It's difficult. There's some slightly above basic coding involved. People looking to use NB at this level are probably quite familiar with the game and would play at a relatively high level to begin with. Things like using detaunt as a high priority, but only when taking a burst of damage, or being targeted by specific spells. Using potions as a conditional to burst health at low levels, or popping an AP pot when your target is low hp to finish them off. Making Cleanse something automatic, especially effective with group cleanse abilities. These uses suck and take decision making out of the context of a skilled player.

If there were ways to strip some of the more advanced functions from NB without stripping all of them, Mythic probably would have done it. But throwing out some good things (raising the skill floor) because of some bad things (high skill players being even more efficient) wasn't a battle they wanted to fight. At one point they talked with the developer of NB and asked him to remove some functions, which he did. But the underlying server-side code wasn't changed. Anyone who understood LUA and NB enough could very well have coded them back in. To my knowledge, this hasn't happened because most skilled addon coders moved on to other games.

The reality of using NB, is that it's simply not 100% effective and it will miss skills, cast things when you don't want it to, put potions on cooldown, and pop long cooldown abilities when it's not actually necessary. The UI in WAR is just not responsive enough at times to rely on it. There's also the factor of in-game positioning, teamwork, and knowing when to push or pull back that using NB as a crutch to reach a decent level will never begin to teach. Once you understand the limitations you're imposing on yourself, it's less important to codify every ideal step, and go back to largely playing reactively to specific situations.
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Tiggo
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Re: Addon and Nerf Button setup pt 1

Post#22 » Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:16 am

Well said.
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Darkhiei
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Re: Addon and Nerf Button setup pt 1

Post#23 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:46 pm

So nerf buttons is a bot that gives you a edge you cant naturally adapt to... got it. Like for example you can almost do all your dots as a SW in 1 second time with nerf buttons you'll be able to emulate it so you dont have to naturally adapt to any timing when you're pressured kind of takes the human out of gaming in this situation it's like playing a 10 button class with only 3 buttons and emulate perfect timing for each string so you dont waste time to think about it, consider it, it's like having a insta win button pretty much

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Ghostweed
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Re: Addon and Nerf Button setup pt 1

Post#24 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:25 pm

Yeah, most addons are crutches for "I want an easy game" crowd. All addons affecting gameplay should be banned. One can clearly see who is using addons and who is not. Its the main reason why I have abandoned this game and devs are even advocating loads of addons. I just wonder if the skill lvl of players dropped so much, that they are unable to play the game without any crtuches/cheats/helpers etc.
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Ekundu01
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Re: Addon and Nerf Button setup pt 1

Post#25 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:33 pm

Ghostweed wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:25 pm Yeah, most addons are crutches for "I want an easy game" crowd. All addons affecting gameplay should be banned. One can clearly see who is using addons and who is not. Its the main reason why I have abandoned this game and devs are even advocating loads of addons. I just wonder if the skill lvl of players dropped so much, that they are unable to play the game without any crtuches/cheats/helpers etc.
Add ons are not just for making it easier some actually fix the terrible UI that the base game comes with. A lot of the add ons you see today came over from DAOC because that game had a terrible UI too. Not to mention we have bugs in this game with the base UI that shows incorrect buffs/debuffs on stuff it shouldn't. The add ons weed that out. This is an old game with an Old UI that hasn't been modified in years. If you don't use add ons you are probably crippling your game play just because of old UI elements that make it harder to play.
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Ghostweed
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Re: Addon and Nerf Button setup pt 1

Post#26 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:37 pm

Ekundu01 wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:33 pm
Ghostweed wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:25 pm Yeah, most addons are crutches for "I want an easy game" crowd. All addons affecting gameplay should be banned. One can clearly see who is using addons and who is not. Its the main reason why I have abandoned this game and devs are even advocating loads of addons. I just wonder if the skill lvl of players dropped so much, that they are unable to play the game without any crtuches/cheats/helpers etc.
Add ons are not just for making it easier some actually fix the terrible UI that the base game comes with. A lot of the add ons you see today came over from DAOC because that game had a terrible UI too. Not to mention we have bugs in this game with the base UI that shows incorrect buffs/debuffs on stuff it shouldn't. The add ons weed that out. This is an old game with an Old UI that hasn't been modified in years. If you don't use add ons you are probably crippling your game play just because of old UI elements that make it harder to play.
Just what I said. Want easy game - addons, Want normal game - no addons. I dont care about visual addons, but the gamplay ones. NB is one of them and its cancerous.
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zachary
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Re: Addon and Nerf Button setup pt 1

Post#27 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:13 pm

Ghostweed wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:37 pm I dont care about visual addons, but the gameplay ones.
This is clearly a bogus distinction, unless you think that being blind is the same as being sighted. Making it easier to see which enemies are healers, or have debuffs on them, or which friendlies have DoTs on them, or are near death, etc - those are MAJOR gameplay-affecting changes that all qualify as "visual addons".
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Gangan
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Re: Addon and Nerf Button setup pt 1

Post#28 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:26 pm

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Re: Addon and Nerf Button setup pt 1

Post#29 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:44 pm

Gangan wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:26 pm Image

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