Why don't more people join SC groups from /5?

[NoRKaLKiLLa]

Apparently you do

[dur3al]

So, if the game is supposed to be balanced around grps (wbs) but nobody is interested in grping, does forming a premade needs to be more appealing? (carrot on a stick)

My impression in the past was that 6on6 and therefore grpplay is a niche and the pure joy of playing in a grp is supposed to be the only incentive behind.
According to op/this thread it is not working.

My thoughts exactly.

It was more of a wider social commentary on the community, game as a whole and its player's mentality. However, the more i think about it, the more i see that its just something we should expect - its just a reflection on real life society.

In same way that people are happy with mediocrity in game, people are happy with mediocrity in their real lives. Many people do not contribute to society, are a negative drain on society, do not look to better themselves as people or their situation/wealth, dont invent or create, and commonly take the path of least resistance and unwilling to take risks.

I suppose ones personal level of need for self improvement and cicumstances can define both your success in real life and in game.

I am bit baffled by this statement.

Many (most?) people reserve their energy and willingness to improve at non-trivial life things, so improving at video game get lower priority. Kinda logical.

I'd like to comment about this subject.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that people play games to enjoy themselves, have a good time and chill.
But learning and improving yourself is part of the enjoyment. How can people not realize this? Why do people seem separate as, you can either:

a) Be a good player
or
b) Have fun

Learning new things and acquiring knowledge is fun.
The "energy" you spend is actually the same for a good or a bad player, the enjoyment vary based on your expectations. So a player that is used to having 2k renown points per gaming hour (or 5 decent fights per hour, or any other meter you can think of) will be baffled by how much more they can get if they only improve themselves, and go up to, lets say 5k renown points per hour (or take on larger groups of enemies finding decent fights more often). They'll feel their gaming time is being spent way more wisely and will feel much better about themselves. This goes not only for gaming of course as Althi said, but for work or any other department in life really. That's the general attitude I have regarding everything, be at work, or with my gym workouts, or my diet, or my studies or whatever really, and I don't feel I'm "spending more energy", it actually means the opposite. It means i'm spending the energy wisely. Learning doesn't occupy space, that's what I grew up by.

And in a game like this where skill is not determinant by how often you play (gear is not really that hard to get, and high RR does not give you a huge power-creep). It is not determinant by how quickly you can react like in FPS games, or by how low your ping is - I'm used to play with around 300 ping in here - its determinant by knowledge of mechanics, classes, synergy, positioning & coordination, all of this you can pick up by simply playing with people, observing and asking. As a factual example from my part:

Once I started playing my WH (le Pink Fairy) very early I'd notice that guarded targets were a pain to take down, I thought what's the counter to that? To look into his buffs (in vanilla UI is very hard to see them) to determine who has guard and who doesn't? So I did this super pro skill move in which I simply asked in advice chat.. I got told to use BuffHead addon in order to easily see who was guarded or not. Now I cannot fathom how people think that spending 2 minutes to download an addon and learning how to set it up is "not fun"? Didn't you had to learn your class, skills, rotations, read the tool-tip of skills to figure out which ones are good, which ones are bad, wasn't all this part of your gaming experience as you leveled along?

And in response to this thread, once people actually understand that it is fun to learn new things, and that by doing so, they'll discover how powerful and how much easy it is using synergy from the classes at their disposal and coordination from group playing - they'll do exactly that, they will form groups. And that is far from simply using fotm groups or fully geared characters, as I explained in some other thread way back about the difference between fotm players and good players, good players will honestly pick up any spec and make it work within their conditions, and the best way to do this, is to pick your fights wisely.

Rewards should be increased for group play, just like balancing should be around group play (as I'm tired of mentioning), how can people not realize that this game is hugely group focused? And in order to not discourage a "fresh" group after being stomped by an experienced premade, the losing group should still be rewarded above solo players or puggers, so that solo players and casuals will feel more inclined to participate in a group (after all this is a massive multiplayer game no?) and that the fresh groups will try to become the experienced premade. Problem is that that's not the general view here, we want to lower the skill/knowledge bar instead of rising it.

I really liked the idea of the event done sometime ago (even though I couldn't participate) about having team captains picking players and grouping them up and spreading out general rules and directions of what they should do in order to win, if this was a common theme, I garantee that casual players will understand and see how strong they can be playing grouped up.

[Eathisword]

Well... I am an average pugger, sometimes doing 3-6 man groups on stupid comp, and I see 3 results by the same cause :

By having no ladder or no progressive challenges in scenarios (goldlilocks principle; i.e. not too hot, not too cold) you have :
1- Skilled/average players that enjoy dumb comp/class that cant compete against skilled/average meta players because of career imbalances;
2- Newer players that wanna play a meta group but can't compete anyway due to lack of a progression system. They have to fight proper, experienced groups right off the bat, lose and give up.
3- Skilled/average players that enjoy meta play that have no one to compete against.

Oh and by failing at a 100% rate, you don't get better. Pretty much every educational study is pretty clear on that. To improve, you need some kind of success at your level. I mean take the best RoR 6 man, put them in an NFL game and say : learn football. Not gonna work. They won't improve. Chances are they won't like football very much after the 1st quarter.

In RvR, it is different : you can somewhat chose the fights you get in. And you can chose the scale of that fight : zergs, 1v1, 2v5, whatever. There is also a randomness to everything. Awesome and crappy stuff can happen anytime : it's unpredictable. In scenario, you can look at the opposing team's guild/comp and 90% of the time, you know how it's gonna play out.

Pointing fingers at the community is not the answer to this I believe. The ''well, just group'' argument, doesn't hold the road. If you don't enjoy the cookie cutter specs of the OP classes, you can't reasonably compete in scenarios, specially in 6v6. You can however have reasonable success on a scale you enjoy in RvR. And you can also have a 50/50 or better shot at winning a solo/duo pug scenario.

To end this wall of text : not being able to queue while in WB, reduces the chances of some decent guilds ever queuing.

Edit - I pretty much agree with Sync however : learning is the most fun part in the game. Sadly, as a teacher, I believe that the willingness to learn is not a particularly dominant trait in western culture. Freaks like Jaycub, opening question threads every 2 hours, are pretty funny and refreshing exceptions.

[blakokami]

not being able to queue while in WB, reduces the chances of some decent guilds ever queuing.

QFT

[Haojin]

@op, simple:

1-Having socialfobia
2-Language problems
3-Lack of confidence
4-Preffering to be casual
5-Don't wanna be inside a voice program

[Telen]

Personally speaking I find being part of a guild and committing to guild nights feels more of thing to do in live games. Its nostalgia that keeps people playing here. No one from my old guild is here and the few names from alliance mostly come and go. I just think the majority play this server for very different motivations than they would a new live mmo. I dont have any plans like I do in a live game. Just log on mess around and member the good days.

[Tomerant]

it's how "modern gamers" are.

Can't stand a wipe.
Too spoiled.
Expecting everything done in 1st try.

It's something which they were thought by playing post 2010 mmos.

If this game was live in it's original state, trust me, it would look something like today's WoW.
Pew pew = max lvl, then pew pew = BiS

[Thamor]

Personally speaking I find being part of a guild and committing to guild nights feels more of thing to do in live games. Its nostalgia that keeps people playing here. No one from my old guild is here and the few names from alliance mostly come and go. I just think the majority play this server for very different motivations than they would a new live mmo. I dont have any plans like I do in a live game. Just log on mess around and member the good days.

I agree on this view and for me & old guild friends who joined about 2 weeks ago again to play. It's more about having fun again in warhammer and with people. I don't even mind the imbalance between stuff, because I have experienced it all in the Live game. That is why it's all fun again and know exactly what to expect and don't have any weird conceptions about the game

[Jaycub]

It's too much of a pain in the butt considering you will still get smashed by guild premades with voice comms and proper setups.

It's just easier to turn on some music and chill out in the solo que sc, it would be perfect if the sc manager was more strict and there was 0 chance of getting into the non PUG version of that SC when you que.

[Daknallbomb]

Oh that so true. After 5 hours focussed playing in pre i love to come down in some solo pug scs or solo rvr. A Bit Musik and Gogo