Why do people hate on melee DoK/WP so much? (opinions wanted)

[Luuca]

Once the Devs have Client Control, the DoK and WP classes are slated for changes that will clarify and bolster their roles as melee healers in such a way as to make this the primary role of the class, with viable options as situational backline healers.

Two Weeks™

[Valfaros]

Played Meele Dok here and on live. So based on my experience (played till rr90 with several pauses) meele dok got waaaay more hate in the early days of AoR then it gets here. In AoR it was getting better at the end but still got some flames here and there. However here on RoR I hardly ever got any complains about me with my meele DoK in any of the SC's I played. Which is why I switched to single target dps zealot (Well and the trillion rdd's on order made meele dok very annoying from time to time). I guess I just missed the people flaming me and telling me how I should play my class while they clearly didn't understood how their easy dd is supposed to be played (or in other words running in full retard and dieing in a second no matter if healed or not).

[Azarael]

Once the Devs have Client Control, the DoK and WP classes are slated for changes that will clarify and bolster their roles as melee healers in such a way as to make this the primary role of the class, with viable options as situational backline healers.

Two Weeks™

No. I was the drive behind those changes. I am that drive no longer, and I have advised others not to be either.

[Lancez]

No. I was the drive behind those changes. I am that drive no longer, and I have advised others not to be either

wait what?

Does that mean we shouldn't expect changes to the class to make melee healing more viable? just asking because my whole long term plan depends on that.

To the OP question, I think the hate is based in an understanding that the class in that role is no where near as powerful as a full healbot. Having played both ways on live and here there is no comparison. As full Salv I can pump out tons of constant healing with little to no risk.
As melee I can't be in the backlines and that means that many more destro (I play Wp) can target and focus me and that's exactly what happens. Between a healer being in front lines and being kited/mitigated to reduce healing we quickly become very ineffective.

You basically have a giant target on your back and then you need to go where everyone can target you to be effective. It just doesn't work nearly as well as full on healbot.

It's a shame really because it sort of works for the 1st part of the game, then in T4 it just falls apart. I want to go back to melee healing because I enjoy it a lot more

[GodlessCrom]

Once the Devs have Client Control, the DoK and WP classes are slated for changes that will clarify and bolster their roles as melee healers in such a way as to make this the primary role of the class, with viable options as situational backline healers.

Two Weeks™

No. I was the drive behind those changes. I am that drive no longer, and I have advised others not to be either.

Realize the reasons for this may be personal or private, I apologize, but I feel I missed something here. What happened to make you change your mind so drastically on these issues? If you don't wish to share, I understand.

[Luuca]

Once the Devs have Client Control, the DoK and WP classes are slated for changes that will clarify and bolster their roles as melee healers in such a way as to make this the primary role of the class, with viable options as situational backline healers.

Two Weeks™

No. I was the drive behind those changes. I am that drive no longer, and I have advised others not to be either.

sorry to hear that. In their current role of sippy-cup heal dispenser, they are quite effective; however, like you pointed out when the whole .ab ex thing started, it's not the spirit of the class and the HDPS options should be improved to provide a viable alternative.

Damn shame, I was pinning my hopes on client control to allow me to see the DoK with 2 swords again.

[adei]

It seems you have had a bad experience, I have never had to come up against such negativity from other players, I mean its up to you how you want to play. I have never found anything wrong with melee healing dok, its fine.. maybe a little too fine to be fair. The class functions fine and it just takes a bit of getting used to, it can fit in a group you just have to not be afraid of not running what is best and actually adapt to playing a different way.

If someone is telling you that its not effective or not good, or yelling at you for playing this way, then either
A) They are selfish.
B) They have no idea how to play it.
C) They are afraid to try something that might not be 'optimal' for easy success, and prefer to play it safe and 'normal'

I mean if you take a look at the server its easy to tell that not many people want them/want to try them in groups, but that is the nature of any game. It's not the most optimal way to play the class, and requires more group effort to make it work, so people don't play it. Even tho it's in a very strong spot more so than its WP counterpart, which has its issues.

I think the point you made kind of hits the nail on the head and I have basically just repeated what you are saying, anyone who is trying to be 'top dog' and super serious here, will not play it because its not fotm, the rest of us play it and enjoy it. There are groups that run them, they just don't pretend to be something they are not and adapt.

[Azarael]

Realize the reasons for this may be personal or private, I apologize, but I feel I missed something here. What happened to make you change your mind so drastically on these issues? If you don't wish to share, I understand.

Most people probably won't care, so spoiler below.

Spoiler:

The project lost almost all of its meaning for me in mid-December, because this was the point at which the major components of my drive to work on it were lost.

I derive satisfaction and worth from the improvement of a flawed design, and from the polishing of a rough gem into something approaching a diamond. The design, however, must demonstrate potential to become great. I realized in late November and early December that I would be unable to solve the problems with the core concepts of RvR and vertical gear progression/balance, which made playing the game such anathema to me. At that point, this element of the drive I had died - I could no longer respect the game.

As a result, I'm not willing to put major effort into refining small concepts, like melee healing, which generate a ton of controversy and complaint both inside the team and outside of it, for a game that is in my opinion very deeply flawed. It's not worth the effort and that pushback is certainly something I can't handle any more.

I also, for quite personal reasons, need to feel as though I'm making personal progress from the work that I do, and increase my own perceived worth. It was made clear to me by one of the later posters in a topic from that time that not only would solving the problems of RoR fail to benefit me in this way, as there would be no wider respect for this and it would be irrelevant in the future, but that my own apparent need to serve as some kind of messiah that the game ultimately did not need was causing discontent within the playerbase. I was accomplishing the opposite effect to what I had intended. Not only that, but time spent thinking about game design is time not spent thinking about or writing code, which is the only valuable thing I would take away from here. These realizations deter me further from contributing any modifications.

Those who have observed me likely harbour suspicions that something isn't quite right with me. I used to have very high uptime on the project and a passion that went beyond what might be expected for a project like this. This is because I've been using this project as an escape from some personal issues in reality. I won't go into them, but part of the problem is that I cannot allow myself to fail. This powers my usual stubbornness and relentlessness in attacking a problem, and my passionate defenses of my positions and viewpoints. However, I failed where it counted most - in RvR and on balance - and unlike past failures, I failed in a very permanent way. There is nothing I can do to fix this game.

As you have seen from the changelogs, I make very, very limited contributions now. The loss of this project as an outlet combined with some other RL circumstances have led to me not being able to concentrate on doing even the smallest things for the project, let alone engaging with the community in the manner that I once did. I hold my rank both because I occasionally post to confirm internal workings and mechanics of the emulator, and because I hold the idea that in the future, I may be able to reconcile these issues and contribute to the project again, in the pure role of a developer rather than a designer or player. But given the state of things at the moment, that could be a long time in coming.

I apologise if some find this explanation overdetailed to the point of arrogance, but I guess I feel it's appropriate for me to set things out like this because of the presence I formerly was.

Outside of my own situation, I have recommended to the other members of the team that they drop the melee/casted hybrid healing concept because it is too difficult to make work in a game that does not have state stabilization. I would have struggled to make it work if the game were locked to one state, and even then, it would only have worked in scenarios. I stand by my assertion that it is unworkable in a state-unstable game.

[Mcgotrek]

Most people probably won't care, so spoiler below.

I sincerely wish you all the luck in the world with the rl circumstances and I hope to see you back in the game in the future!

[Martok]

Most people probably won't care, so spoiler below.

I read your response and appreciate it. For what it may be worth, know that ever since I first logged on here and to this day I appreciate the efforts you made to bring life to this game. Thank-you. I wish you well.