Why do people hate on melee DoK/WP so much? (opinions wanted)

[bichka]

Except for the range on bolt there isnt anything broken with magus. You still use abilities in a general rotation as they were meant to be used. Its the powered aoe lifetaps being used as part of a spamable heal rotation instead of an emergency heal or something you work towards like balance druid thats the issue with am.

80 feet lifetap , heavy ap drain , wich in order isnt that hard to fixt but in Destru is way more serious issue.

Except , magus lacks ranged AA, has worse rotation than engi , group utility ,worse pets , and in general alot of class balances engi doesnt .

engi will suck later, when high tier armors turn his AA and armor-related damage to useless. Since engi doesn't have armor debuff, M2 nerfed to M3 doesn't count.
So riftbot and/or grenade spammer is only option. Magus don't have such problems by design.

[ToXoS]

Except for the range on bolt there isnt anything broken with magus. You still use abilities in a general rotation as they were meant to be used. Its the powered aoe lifetaps being used as part of a spamable heal rotation instead of an emergency heal or something you work towards like balance druid thats the issue with am.

80 feet lifetap , heavy ap drain , wich in order isnt that hard to fixt but in Destru is way more serious issue.

Except , magus lacks ranged AA, has worse rotation than engi , group utility ,worse pets , and in general alot of class balances engi doesnt .

engi will suck later, when high tier armors turn his AA and armor-related damage to useless. Since engi doesn't have armor debuff, M2 nerfed to M3 doesn't count.
So riftbot and/or grenade spammer is only option. Magus don't have such problems by design.

Engie have armor debuff with its gun turret

[Mystry]

All I will say is that I started retail warhammer intending to play WP as DPS, only to discover that the wrath/grace trees and DPS in general was completely broken and never got fixed. I quit less than a month into retail because they would not or could not give WP a viable DPS spec.

When I started on this private server I knew that WP was still fundamentally broken as a DPS, so I avoided playing one until the divine second coming of WP Experimental Mode. When that came out, all my hopes and dreams were realized and WP was FINALLY viable as DPS. I was elated beyond my ability to describe it in mundane words.

Then the devs removed experimental mode for, in my opinion, absolutely no good reason, and I got to feel that crushing disappointment that I felt in retail all over again. I quit playing regularly on the spot.

These days I check the forums almost every day, waiting for Experimental mode to return, in whatever form. Until that day comes and DPS WP is viable again, I won't be playing warhammer.

[freshour]

@Az - I wish you best man. You are the reason I gave melee healing a shot. You are the reason I call my DoK/WP melee healers and not DPS. You are the reason I tried every single possible spec/tactic setup/SC duo that is possible. Only being a 3rd year medical student but also very interested in psychiatry (even thought it is kinda obvious) - I think you just need to take a little break from WAR and recharge man. It sounds like you are already doing that which as much as it pains everyone to admit, i'm sure they would agree.

To the thread -

- Thanks for all of the info guys/girls. I really do hope that the relationship b/w players and melee healers can be improved from this. Starting off as a melee wp I do realize that it is almost not even comparable to a melee DoK which is superior in every aspect. Sure it could be evened out in a few minor tweaks but that is why I swapped to a DoK... I didn't think time spent beating a dead horse was a good thing and I realized I became pretty bitter towards people who were giving us hours and hours and hours of their time. I almost felt toxic in doing so, so I checked out and focused on RL and now that I'm back really hope to bring more of myself in a positive manner.

I think most melee healers should be ready to respec for RVR to heals. It will help your WB out 99/100x swapping than staying melee. In SC's, have fun, but try and bring a guard who syncs well with you like I do with my buddy who plays Chosen. Everyone gets their enjoyment from different aspects of the game, for me it is holding two awesome looking swords and healing my party face to face with the enemy. For others it is standing in the back and doing the same.

All good posts, I'm sure there will be some more but now that I've caught up at the end of a long freaking week I am pretty glad I made this thread.

Again, thanks to everyone who contributed.

[boog]

Questions for those willing to read this whole thing.

1. What is your biggest problem with melee healers in SC's?
2. Have you ever played with one that actually did their role and did it well?
3. Is it really that big of a deal?
4. Do you think educating them on how to play the class better so you both have fun is better - than saying play backline healer or don't play with us at all?

My response is written from a tanks perspective.

1) I don't have a problem with melee healers in SCs, I actually find they are incredibly useful when played effectively. I often will guard a melee healer automatically when I see one enter the SC or in my group because if they do play their role effectively, not only do they provide a) excellent DMG; but also b) heals for the frontline DPS and; c) as a tank I am better able to utilize my guard to protect the group when I have a healer and MDPS all within range of me and I do not have to run to the backlines to protect a healer.

2) I have played with more that do not know how to or did not play their role well than I have those that do.

3) It is a HUGE deal. You are a healer at the end of the day and if you are not performing your role of not only healing yourself but your party then you are a liability.

Or at LEAST throw a heal towards the person who is GUARDING YOU! I mean come on! I can't even count how many times I have guarded a melee healer and I see their health never drop below 75%, meanwhile mine keeps steadily dropping and next thing you know I am dead without having received a single heal and sure enough as soon as I die and they no longer have guard or my buffs they drop like flies. That to me is the MOST frustrating thing about melee healers.

4) I don't know how to play a melee healer so my opinion on telling them how to play their class would come from pure ignorance. I also do not believe telling them to change or don't bother at all is ineffective because the way a person gets better at their class and their build is through practice.

If a melee healer asked for my honest opinion of how they did and they sucked I would have no problem telling them they sucked but that that just means they only have room to get better.

[Mystry]

3) It is a HUGE deal. You are a healer at the end of the day and if you are not performing your role of not only healing yourself but your party then you are a liability.

I 100% disagree with this.

At the end of the day, I am what role I choose to be. You don't get to choose what I play as.

[Daknallbomb]

3) It is a HUGE deal. You are a healer at the end of the day and if you are not performing your role of not only healing yourself but your party then you are a liability.

I 100% disagree with this.

At the end of the day, I am what role I choose to be. You don't get to choose what I play as.

+1
If i want to play dps As a class that normaly is a healer. Iam a dps at end of the day and try to play my dps role As good As i can.

[boog]

3) It is a HUGE deal. You are a healer at the end of the day and if you are not performing your role of not only healing yourself but your party then you are a liability.

I 100% disagree with this.

At the end of the day, I am what role I choose to be. You don't get to choose what I play as.

+1
If i want to play dps As a class that normaly is a healer. Iam a dps at end of the day and try to play my dps role As good As i can.

Okay that is fair. But also by following that logic if i am a 2h DPS tank i should be under no obligation to use my guard or other group utility abilities i have that are designed around the overarching mechanic that my class is a tank. I am not getting into whether or not i am using it effectively or the number of tanks that actually use guard in the first place, i am talking about the pure logic behind both of your claims. Give that, the following scenario you would have to agree with would you not?

Also i think you misconstrued the intent of my statement. I did not mean that at the end of the day you have to sit back and play a healer. You can be excellent DPS and heal your group members as well, i have seen it done (check out Divy).

The point i am trying to make is that even though you are a melee dps healer does not mean you get off the loop of having to heal your party members as well. I am not saying you have to be the best healer and sacrifice your dps to heal the party but you do have an obligation to utilize your abilities for the betterment of the group, especially in circumstances where you have the capacity to act.

[lilsabin]

i have a question :... so lets say you get in a scenario , with 2 tanks , 4 mdps , 2 rdps and 2 heals ( total 10) , since there are 2 tanks , it means that there is 2 guards available , SO , WHO IS GONNA GET GUARDED , AND WHO IS NOT AND WHY ?

[Dabbart]

They will Xguard ofc.