Why do people hate on melee DoK/WP so much? (opinions wanted)

[freshour]

I recently started playing again as I played for about 4-5 months at the end of T3 and just onto T4's release. I started my clinical rotations and now that I've got my bearings a bit I'm really excited to play some WAR again as I have some of the best, if not THE best pvp experiences of any game I've ever had here. Toxicity aside (that is in any game if you look for it) - the community is pretty awesome. Order is like you'd think nicer and more open to help everyone. Destro sort of fills their meta of tough love (if any love) as anyone would when you have a class that kills someone and yells WAHHHGHHHHH (which is awesome)

Preface aside, I've been completely stumped by why everyone still hates on melee healers. I'm not talking about healers trying to play mDPS and I am totally leaving out the shaman,am, zealot, rp because well they aren't melee healers.

So far what I've been able to gather is that a melee healer requires quite a bit more game sense to pull off. In most cases it requires a guard (mdps hate that) or at least a tank who can swap guard in the moment (some tanks don't even guard) but when you do pull it off it is amazing! WP's don't have a heal debuff (lets be real that ability is horrible), but DoK's have what I argue as the best heal debuff in the entire game. So rather than embrace that, or even encourage current melee doks to embrace their real role which isn't a flat out DPS... people just hate on them.

I'd be willing to argue that unless you were in a mega high end, max tier skill-wise pvp/sc.... That a melee DoK can perform just as well as a healing DoK. Sure, there are disadvantages as I believe there should be. If you get knocked away from guard, or CC'd the healing stops. It is the same as if you silence a backline healer. You churn out great AOE heals, add to a melee train with heal debuff, have a burst heal you can swap targets to while you are using it to give other memebers their heals, and DoK's get devour essence that they can use on ally tanks who are in the frey, pop M1 and poof your entire party is invulnerable for the most part. I mean... there are so many awesome things and lets be real, the play style is a lot more fast paced and fun for the healer.

The disadvantages being in large scale RVR which you usually have one wp/dok in a party and one of the other healers and you cover the aoe aspect, the big single target heal aspect, and you do well. Melee healers don't do as well in this regard because they get focused and evaporated. So I'm with you on that, but I also don't play melee healers in RvR I just respec becaue they don't really need good gear to be good. But why this hate in SC's?

Questions for those willing to read this whole thing.

1. What is your biggest problem with melee healers in SC's?
2. Have you ever played with one that actually did their role and did it well?
3. Is it really that big of a deal?
4. Do you think educating them on how to play the class better so you both have fun is better - than saying play backline healer or don't play with us at all?

Thanks to everyone who read this, I've gathered quite a few opinions on the matter and aside from the super old school WAR players who always use the phrase "back on live" - most people don't mind playing with a melee DoK/WP that knows what they are doing and I really hope this relationship could be worked on rather than "L2P, GETGUD, Backline Healers or solo Q" etc.

[GodlessCrom]

My biggest problem is that all the melee healers I see die very quickly when they charge head long into the Destro melee ball and then rage when we dont dutifully follow them to death.

Caveat: pretty sure Order has like 1 melee healer, and he's a raging idiot.

[Dabbart]

My biggest problem is that all the melee healers I see die very quickly when they charge head long into the Destro melee ball and then rage when we dont dutifully follow them to death.

Caveat: pretty sure Order has like 1 melee healer, and he's a raging idiot.

This. I got no prob with dps healers or melee healers. It's crap players in general that annoy me. If you're good or even decent at it, then go for it! But watching healers try to facetank gets old.

Also, humans complain. It's kinda what we do...

[th3gatekeeper]

Can vouch for Freshour, I play with his DOK frequently and often will guard him. When I do, he is usually top 3 overall in BOTH damage and healing.

I can also vouch for the responses. Most melee DOK I see rush headfirst into a group of order, get pissed when they drop in 2 seconds (like all MDPS do) because no guard was on them.

But I am curious too. The "Must be backline healer" mentality I see... Ill make a party, have a good Melee Healer Dok and suggest that he + 1 other dedicated healer can sustain party pretty well... People never believe it till we do it... Part of me PREFERS Melee healing DOK vs a 2nd backline just because it gives best of both worlds... Granted this would be in a melee train and not in a party with say 2 tanks and 2 RDPS. But it seems to me, many underestimate the value of melee healing DOK.

[Daknallbomb]

I Just can say me As dps shammy have The Same Problems.. . U can be god of meele dok The ppl still will Flame you. So often you will Hear The Argument well a pure dps is better.. Well Sure it is But mostly they forget one fact there are Tons of pure dps players with Bad skills and you are better than they.. But noone cares.

[bichka]

2. Have you ever played with one that actually did their role and did it well?

Played - Yes. Did their role - no, but it was fun . (on old server, i don't see any point to play it here. It's rdps paradise.)
But imho, point of dps dok is perma healdebuf on target, it's almost useless to try to remove it, so in melee train it's can be awesome.
second point - (not sure about this server, but on old) dok's melee heal was not affected by healdebuff. It's was easy to abuse it and make lot of heals on 3rd stage of champion's battle during city siege. Also it's was enough to heal party in PVE.
3. Is it really that big of a deal?

yes! hurr durr, HEAL ME!!!! And other hate speech in PUGs.

[Martok]

1. What is your biggest problem with melee healers in SC's?

DPS healers can still heal. In my opinion DPS DoKs tend to be much better at this than DPS AM's while DPS AM's tend to ignore healing efforts as if casting a group heal is a violation of some religious tenet. Some of them even weave that theorem into their names. That can be annoying.

2. Have you ever played with one that actually did their role and did it well?

On live Fromtheus was the best I ever grouped with. Here...I so rarely see the same AM in SC's I haven't been able to discern any patterns. Amidala is an excellent AM, and there are some very good WP's running around as well. I was in an SC recently with a RP who turned in the best healing total I have ever seen from any RP ever, but unfortunately I can't remember his name.

3. Is it really that big of a deal?

DPS AM's can balance out or even cancel the effect of one of those NB dependent Sorcs or Magus' running around, so they certainly have their place. I don't really worry about it, however.

4. Do you think educating them on how to play the class better so you both have fun is better - than saying play backline healer or don't play with us at all?

I never offer advice on how someone should play their toon unless asked. I do often suggest tactics, but that isn't quite the same thing.

[Toonman]

1. What is your biggest problem with melee healers in SC's?

The overwhelming majority of melee DOKs I've seen, run in alone and try to solo a group of order. Without doubt the first to die and the first to complain that they aren't getting heals. They do the same thing over and over and over. 9 deaths, 0 kbs, under 30k heals and damage. Complete waste of a SC slot 95% of the time. Assuming it's the same on Order side with melee WP.

[Charon]

Melee heal WP in sc might be effective (if you care about pure numbers) but is at most unreliable and need melee train party and support single target healer ( rp or am) to stabilise party. In fact as melee heal wp you dont bring to the table much more than book heal version outside filling next space in melee crowd. Dps wp in other hand - in my opinion - is totaly unefective if full premade dont babysite you. I recognise 3 good dps wps currently playing and only 1 is realy efective.

DoK is different story - cripple aura + spamable heal debuff + occasional guard and support dmg = there is no single squishy order target that can firstly escape and then survive such pressure for long

[freshour]

Thanks for all of the replies so far guys. I realize there is a bit of stigma towards them and I've tried to ask as many players as I could. I often duo and end up partying up with as many people as will want to come. Mostly because when I first started others did the same to me.

I am by no means trying to remove the back line healing DoK or WP as they are insanely good (some might say OP but I won't go there lol) - BUT - I would like other people who enjoy the melee wp/dok playstyle to read this and see how the rest of the community feels on that subject.

So again, thanks everyone!