[DISCUSSION] RVR - likes/dislikes/possible improvement?

[Daknallbomb]

I still dont know Wy we talking about it.. Aslong its one sided 200% aao Rolf stomp every System dont works. Solve that Problem and mayb than talk about the System. I still dont know Wy someone should get a reward for taking a zone with more than Double Pop than the Enemy! As the Word say a reward should get of you have to do something for IT. Now the only Thing you have to do is ne online and run a Bit over The map nothing Else. And thats not a system problem its a player problem. Aslong it is like that its The biggest nonsense to change anything. Its The Same Find a System that works in a 12 vs 4 Szenario...
I would be very radical and If one side out number The other side o would make something like a stop tha ppl Cant go in the orvr zone or something.. If that would be possibel.

[th3gatekeeper]

I still dont know Wy we talking about it.. Aslong its one sided 200% aao Rolf stomp every System dont works. Solve that Problem and mayb than talk about the System. I still dont know Wy someone should get a reward for taking a zone with more than Double Pop than the Enemy! As the Word say a reward should get of you have to do something for IT. Now the only Thing you have to do is ne online and run a Bit over The map nothing Else. And thats not a system problem its a player problem. Aslong it is like that its The biggest nonsense to change anything. Its The Same Find a System that works in a 12 vs 4 Szenario...
I would be very radical and If one side out number The other side o would make something like a stop tha ppl Cant go in the orvr zone or something.. If that would be possibel.

IDK about that. We have AAO that encourages the under dog to fight back. I actually PREFER to be on the AAO side, than the ROFL stomp side. What that means for me, is there are only a small # of people on Destro and Order has 2+ warbands so:

A) If I cap a few BOs I will get good contribution in relation to my peers
B) the zone will flip fast, so I wont be stuck in RVR for 4 hours

When RVR is going on with 100 on 100 battles, I am actually DISCOURAGED to play, because I wasnt there from the get go, so i am already WAY behind in contribution which moots out Point A, and then also with 100 on 100 battles its completely unknown how long it will take - which moots out point B.

Thus, I dont even do RVR. I know for a fact many people feel the same way.

At the end of the day, here is the problem I see.

- The current RVR system is not "FUN". If it were you really wouldnt need any incentive to play (aka gear) because people would just play for the sake of having FUN.... People only do RVR atm because of the rewards - which are RNG and unknown time "requirement" which deters RVR.

The focus should be on making RVR FUN.

Why do people play a game like Counter Strike? Its not an RPG, it doesnt have "gear" you unlock. They play it because its fun. They can get on for 10 minutes or 4 hours and play to have fun.

So this is why I made this entire thread. "What do people like (aka find FUN) about RVR".

What would make you go do RVR if there were NO rewards?

For instance, I can say that I would play SCs without any rewards. Why? Because I find it fun and challenging (when its fair fights). I like coordinating "who to attack", when to punt, knock down, etc. etc. This is/was obviously appealing to many other people who liked the "6 mans" or 6v6 SC scene.

In RVR its different and you have much much less of this, and its less about "what skills to use" and more about positioning a large group of people and morale tactics. Pump morale, move here, stay here, use M4s and AoE etc.

So they are two completely different TYPES of play. Anyways, im ranting now, but the point being..... I think you need to reward the type of behavior you want to see. Right now, people are "rewarded" for quick zone locks. Ive seen MANY times when there IS a fight, the opposing side logs, because they dont want to be in an RVR lake for 4 hours. Its easier to log off, or swap sides, and then get faster locks = faster RNG shots are gear.

This is the problem I see. Because its all RNG. More chances = higher probability of gear. Where as investing 6 hours in a zone doesnt necessarily increase probability of gear. Sure, if you were in the zone from the beginning, but if you log and RVR has been going for 1 hour, there isnt "incentive" to stay for another 3 hours. Its not fun, it takes too long for many players "play sessions". So people walk away frustrated when they DO invest time.

If you want to see RVR "revived" and less lopsided battles, You should create incentives to fight back and play the game. Or, maybe "punishments" for NOT fighting back (something I have also proposed in the past - such as locking flight masters in lost zones)

Anyways, ill stop ranting. But I am in NO way surprised at the current state of RVR - because:
A) its not fun
B) its not always rewarding
C) it takes an unknown amount of time to "actually" play RVR (meaning fight 100vs100 battles) which most dont have time for.

Its easier to address Point C and Point B, its harder to address Point A, because "fun" for someone who likes SCs (coordination on abilities such as punting, focus DPS, knock downs etc) are not found common in RVR (where its more about mass warband positioning, pushing, morale use, etc)

[Emissary]

Couldn't you just do the same thought of if you have higher aao you do higher dps/heals/mitigation?

[Acidic]

Couldn't you just do the same thought of if you have higher aao you do higher dps/heals/mitigation?

This would really be bad imo
This would create some extremely bad results and I would almost love to see the balance complaints this would raise.
AAO should not affect a player ability only the reard positive and negative

[dansari]

The aao dealing more damage has been brought up before. And it's not a good idea... Basically you then enable very coordinated 6 man's to decimate warbands with the right setups. Think of the current kite meta (I play order, so for example.. AOE slow by BO, ab ex shaman, squig and sorc).. with stronger heals the shaman becomes a god; with mitigation, the BO a juggernaut, etc.

[Emissary]

Do not have to scale it 1 point for 1 point but a slight scaling is a thought, just my opinion.

[Tesq]

My problem with the currently system is that kill sc, i was kinda doing both before the new gear was relased but now with gear like this and system like that there is some times in which pop is too slow; before it was ista pop or just wait 5 min.
I think that a solution to gear progression and rvr system should not impact the sc pop as--> log in, queue, join.
What i (personally) appreciate about sc is exatly that if you want you can simply queue and enter fast in a battle (group or not is irrelevant the pop should came fast even if you group queue; when you queue it should came fast or i'd like that).
Before the new gear etc, sc were both more balanced and pop was faster due ppl be able to swap char at will with out be too focussed on their main to finish to gear and we werenot so obsessed with rvr (due gear).
Actually i cant play my dok with out feeling im wasting time i could have used to grind the stuff for my chosen since i need conqueror while some classes can go and will go with beastlord mixed with domi + 2 conq. Basically it feel like some classes alredy are full geared and i urge to be in line. This is all a more general problem linked both to rvr vs gear and rvr vs sc then only rvr.
Probable a unique currency would had made this system more confortable but ppl would had farmed sc instad and dev would had been forced to make gear cost 10k currency instead 300.
But still feel this problem should be make present. Actually all the ppl are heading in rvr if they play which is not a bad thing but not because they want; some are forced in an unfunny way.

[Lileldys]

RvR in it's current state feels too slow. Zone locks should be sped up and players moving around to more zones. I'm pretty fed up with logging in and seeing CW again

Once a zone is capped and the new one chosen, it seems like it takes a while for the PvP to really get going. After Eataine today, it was a good 1-2hours before CW got active. This should be a bit quicker to reduce downtime. Not sure if this is a playerbase issue or if its something else.
It also takes a while to get some keep sieges going. Again, not 100% on the issue but looks like maybe it's too hard to get everyone on board without some form of guilds/alliances to support the push. Maybe decrease the time taken to kill the lord and we might see some more keep sieges.

I'd like to see some changes to AAO as, in its current state, is not an incentive to most players. People right now are mostly looking for the new gear, and chasing that down over RR. If AAO gave bonuses to drops for Medals i'm sure we'll see more people trying to make it out to the lake, rather than take the easy method and trying to RNG a bag.
Deffo no damage increase/decrease based on AAO. I think we've already seen something similar with the blob dmg change...

[Aurandilaz]

Currently T4 BO capping and supply running reward SOLDIERS medallions.
Once that changes, or somehow begins to contribute towards earning Conq gear, maybe more players will become interested in actually playing the BOs straight from the beginning, instead of the 1-2h wait until they see a keep flare up and decide the numbers are finally okay for some RvR.
Another issue is the difficulty of keeps; as seen today in CW. (3? Destro attempts, and at final attempt 2 WBs have to hold ground floor so 3rd WB can kill Lord...) Big issues with lag too, as people from both sides keep crashing at keeps, even if running lowest settings.

Random suggestion:
Have own keep rank contribute to the enemy Keep Lord HP pool; your r1 keep means enemy Lord has -10% wounds, r2 -20% wounds, r3 -30% wounds, r4 -40% wounds, r5 -50% wounds...
So ideally, your realm would split people to all BOs, in an desperate attempt to get max ranks as high as possible before attempting keep, and even when keep is assaulted, some parties would dedicate themselves to keeping the keep at max rank, to help the rest of the realm in killing Lord.

[Wam]

Issues
the loot roll system as always had flaws even on live

Im not sure what the Dev's are capable of changing or willing on ROR
But a system similar to how you acquire Ruin in T4 but with zone locks in Orvr I believe would be a much fairer system that people would moan less about if possible(people will always moan fact of life)... when people put in alot of time and are lucky enough to get good contribution and a roll combined then either get a empty loot bag or a duplicate, then for me that is what creates the most frustration and if (BIG IF... people once geared could opt out of zone lock bags then the lesser name randoms who make backbone of pugs warbands can gear up too)

I know some friends win purple bag on witch elf and its bad stats compared to others... then other friends who play black ork and
would love purple bag for 2hander...

I believe Gdy has had like 4 duplicates of one type of conqueror... thats alot of effort and rng screws you... I helped someone farm ruin the other day (even with its better system) he got 9 or 10 chests in a row of gold bags with everyone else optted out... now transfer that luck with the zone lock system (good luck getting top 9or10 times even well known players) is just brutal, that there is little alternative to dupe.

So Orvr reward system is clogged up with everyone fighting allies over the same few rewards (unless you pve zones for days) it creates some negativity/disharmony and morale issues when people put in alot of effort and fall short of their aims because system is fairly broken... when you lead your guild warband for many hours, get 20 kills 5 deaths on snb chosen and your dps is high 40 kills... then a choppa in guild comes on in party by his self for 5 mins and dies alot he gets 10th and rewarded greater than people responsible for a few hundred kills combined and you finish 133... even though you never see that many destro in zone then its GG RNG.

I don't personally expect to be rewarded all the time, I know its RNG and its War lol, I got gold the other day, then the next day 3rd contribution and a 167 roll... just a fairer system would be icing on the cake of a good game (I would say more transparent but then that would open up even more can of worms with greater abuse than I already see of the current system with supply runners who pve their way to gold and never fight yet get rewarded even though Orvr/war is based on fighting/pvp)

I think AAO should give even greater rewards... Zerging in the game is pretty bad on both sides, with the nerf to AOE it favours the side with more numbers and more morale abilities. I don't know how you can cure the zerging, or atleast not encourage it... it gets too fixated in one spot.

When your a 6 man or so... you take a bo the bo timer gives you 5 minutes... 3 warbands on the other side take a bo and they get a timer of one minute.... that is not great, when things get capped and secured for long times it then creates a bottleneck where zerg heads instead of people roaming around all the time.

Keep Lord... I dont like his scaling for off peak times, its almost impossible for a general warband to take a keep by themselves if any random defenders... let alone any organised defenders. I can understand the scaling at prime time even then it can be a bit of challenge, like it required one warband to secure lord, and maybe 1.5 organised + to secure ground floor to stop order come back to defend.

Class Balance... some classes get made op while others get nerfed that is a big pandora's box that is always changing I leave it at that (besides flying white lions and pounce up into keeps with barred posterns is very abusive by SM/WL as destro nothing like this)

Positives
I like the fact community is still going on after all these years and is fairly helpful, I like the fact that its free, I like killing order I like that broken things get fixed faster than live ever did.