New gear kills the game

[Telen]

Each time new gear is added it just kills the games diversity. Everyone jumps on the exact same group comps as they are trying to gear them. Its like there's some law that des have to run with chosen bo mara choppa melee trains for the following months. Cant we just do away with it and make the game more interesting like it used to be in the lower tiers where people could gear multiple toons so you didnt see the same group comp time after time after time. Yes there will be some that stick to the fotm but gear grind just enforces it like its mandatory.

[Azarael]

Do I really have to write an essay in response to this? I'm sure you know why this is happening and why it is necessary.

[mursie]

Do I really have to write an essay in response to this? I'm sure you know why this is happening and why it is necessary.

I know why it is happening. I have no idea why you think it is necessary. would love to hear about it.

the OP makes great points. I get that gw2 with no gear progression can be offputting to some, but the pendulum doesn't have to be completely in the other direction either.

Gear progression that adds marginal stat advantage would achieve the carrot that people crave without killing the fragile balance that inherently barely exists in games like this.

really wish you weren't inactive.

[porkstar]

Didn't we as a community decide that we have to hit rock-bottom before we attempt to fix the game? It was the whole "State Stabilization" discussion? If you find it difficult to take another bite of the "new gear" cheeseburger, get a ram-rod baby! Keep eating until you chow down on that Sov gear. (I supported State Stabilization)

[Azarael]

I get that gw2 with no gear progression can be offputting to some, but the pendulum doesn't have to be completely in the other direction either.

Gear progression that adds marginal stat advantage would achieve the carrot that people crave without killing the fragile balance that inherently barely exists in games like this.

No. Don't forget the principle underlying this game and the others like it. They don't have good enough gameplay to hold interest by themselves, they are dependent on valuable rewards to fight over. If you remove those rewards, make them easy to acquire or push their desirability below a certain threshold, people leave the game because there's nothing they want to farm, so you have to introduce or restart the gear cycle. If, conversely, those rewards are constant and desirable (to WHATEVER EXTENT) and cannot be acquired with ease, you will see players running the most efficient compositions for the sake of rewards.

As is a recurring theme with this design in particular and this Godforsaken genre in general, it's a case of being stuck between a rock and a hard place. Do you want a dead game? Or do you want FOTM garbage?

I think it'd be better if people stopped caring about balance and FOTM in general. Let's get real for a second - this is a niche game in a weak genre dominated by the titan that is World of Warcraft. Its gameplay isn't worthy of perfect balance. Play what the hell you want and let others do the same. I thought Telen of all people understood the futility of giving a damn about things like this.

I'm unlocking this - I will handle this one.

[Krima]

mark my words, this topic will turn into another Nerf White lionsss

[mursie]

I heard "its too hard to get all the gear on all the characters that I want, give me free stuff", which is comical given there are multiple avenues for competitive gear.

Free stuff for 20 level 40s, not happening, you want BIS play a main, its certainly not vital or required.

if you refrained from typing responses, threads would be a lot more constructive, in my humble opinion.

[mursie]

I get that gw2 with no gear progression can be offputting to some, but the pendulum doesn't have to be completely in the other direction either.

Gear progression that adds marginal stat advantage would achieve the carrot that people crave without killing the fragile balance that inherently barely exists in games like this.

No. Don't forget the principle underlying this game and the others like it. They don't have good enough gameplay to hold interest by themselves, they are dependent on valuable rewards to fight over. If you remove those rewards, make them easy to acquire or push their desirability below a certain threshold, people leave the game because there's nothing they want to farm, so you have to introduce or restart the gear cycle. If, conversely, those rewards are constant and desirable (to WHATEVER EXTENT) and cannot be acquired with ease, you will see players running the most efficient compositions for the sake of rewards.

As is a recurring theme with this design in particular and this Godforsaken genre in general, it's a case of being stuck between a rock and a hard place. Do you want a dead game? Or do you want FOTM garbage?

I think it'd be better if people stopped caring about balance and FOTM in general. Let's get real for a second - this is a niche game in a weak genre dominated by the titan that is World of Warcraft. Its gameplay isn't worthy of perfect balance. Play what the hell you want and let others do the same. I thought Telen of all people understood the futility of giving a damn about things like this.

I'm unlocking this - I will handle this one.

your points are valid but I think a bit to pessimistic. The gameplay in WAR was/is some of the best group PVP you will find, despite the weak genre that I agree it is camped in. And yes - without gear progression people will end of up leaving. But you already noted the key "the rewards (to whatever extent) are desirable". I don't think the rewards have to be drastic power gap performance improvements. Even slight improvements in gearing (with a touch of aesthetic such as appearance) is enough of a carrot to have people play. So to are the renown points and achievable additional stats with that. The key is to make these marginal improvements not so over powered that they destroy anyone not wearing them or being at the level from even competing.

thx for the replay. I don't disagree with your view on the game... but it is a shame that it does feel like you've given up. The game is good, and it's not that far out of balance. Control over the new carrot gear and the improvement in power it brings is something I thought you guys could control. ANd that control can keep the game in check. Having new players immediately get conquer medals from sc's and rvr in t4 is great (and currently happening). Now if you just make it such that those players can very easily and quickly acquire the one level below gear (merc and annihilator with down converts) and make the top level gear at all times not that much marginally better (better but not ridiculous)... I think you'll have a game that plays forever. In addition to the grind and carrot for a toon... there is also the addiction of alts and gearing for them as well. not to mention the social aspects and enjoyment of just playing pvp.

[BreezeKicker]

Do I really have to write an essay in response to this? I'm sure you know why this is happening and why it is necessary.

I know why it is happening. I have no idea why you think it is necessary. would love to hear about it.

the OP makes great points. I get that gw2 with no gear progression can be offputting to some, but the pendulum doesn't have to be completely in the other direction either.

Gear progression that adds marginal stat advantage would achieve the carrot that people crave without killing the fragile balance that inherently barely exists in games like this.

really wish you weren't inactive.

GW2 wasn't a game w/o gear progression. It may seem like that but it is only because the end game gear was trivial to get [exotics], but that state didn't last long did it? They said there wont be any lineral progression [just more stats mixes] after that tier but what did they do? Introduce fractals and ascended gear. Now that crap was a grind, you either spend time running and gathering mats or bought them of ah to do your DAILY crafting. Oh you missed a day? well crap son, now you are one day behind the rest as you were only able to craft one component per day. Sure you could buy some of em but if memory serves you HAD to craft some of them yourself.

I used to be main guild crafted before that because I had a lot of time and it was one of the things I could do to ease the grind for other members [esp those who hate crafting with passion or had limited play times due to RL obligations], so I went and leveled EVERY SINGLE one of the crafts so I could provide for my guildies. The ascended gear patch felt like a slap in the face and a big **** you for attempting arrangements like that, suddenly everyone had to get everything themselves to be able to get top gear. I was one of the few that could progress straight away, rest of ppl that relayed on me to provide the crafting goods, was forces to start from scratch and rank up crafting from 0.

If we weren't already deeply invested on the server like we have been I doubt many would stay, yet still we lost couple members shortly after due to that crap.



But war is different, there is/was no false claim of going away with gear progression in place. You starting to play it [again] should be aware that this is a thing. Even marginal increase is still and increase, and if you multiply the marginal increase by ~13-15 slots you get not so marginal anymore increase. What ppl need to do is stop perceiving gear as end goal or even max renown for that matter. You got gear and renown, great now what? You gonna keep playing or call it a day? If the the answer is the second, why bother in the 1st place?

My answer is to enjoy my time in-game and take gear as it comes, either it be slow or fast, I don't care because I can still make a difference and I can still enjoy myself whether I have ruin, merc/anni or full conq, and if I don't feel like playing one day I can make up for it next day, dedicating extra time to it.

[Kodama0]

Fun, Content, Balance > Time eaters (Farm)
PvP Gear farm games are dead for like 5/10 years. we do not have the same age or the same time for play this kind of game.

Events for rvr, a 6x6 ladder with cosmetic prizes and seasons, would make the game breath more than gears.
You Devs can make the experience of playing be brilliant, this game have a insane amount of role. or play the role of a bad politician who just throws some crumbs at your own people.