BLOODBATH - AM/Shaman experimental changes

[DefinitelyNotWingz]

How do you know it's a flaw though? What's your reference performance from which you gauge something is out of bounds? Because the ability in question looks like a pretty damn hard counter to 4 man melee trains. I bet it would perform vastly inferior against rdps setups. Or even split melee trains. Too bad no one plays that anymore.

Because pumping out reliable 2k-5k grp heals (not affected by hd), while kiting, every 5s is absolutely balanced!?
I actually think no setup suffers as much against the lifetap as rdps setups. They are profiting the least from lifetap. While running only one tank they can die very fast and there is little the sham/am or any other healer can actually do about it.
If the setup allows mistakes, like a 2-2-2 setup, and the ttk is quite long, lifetap will make the grp immortal.

In theory it is like that, if you want to show up with a rdps grp and prove your claim, I can even help out as whatever, tank, heal or even rdps.

[sanii]

Are AMs/Shams overperforming than golden composition wp/rp or dok/zeal in terms of group utility/heal? I dont think so.

Yes they are overpreforming what you call the 'golden composition' quite significantly even, what i am curious is if someone can find a counter to it without actually using it . And it does look like there seems to be enough interest to try things out .

And it isn't just the fact that they have significant healing output, that coupled with incredible denial inform of the AP drain (especially with 2AMs and 2SH) makes it quite annoying(frustrating) to fight them depending on what class you play.

[roadkillrobin]

Its increadible situational were wich healing setup is the golden one. In a keep seige i wish my Shaman were a DoK every single time. In Murkain Temple or Temple of Isha and a couple of other SC's I wish the Shaman was a DoK every single time. And in open terrain i wish my Zealot or DoK was a Shaman. This is the dynamics of the game. You can't have it all. Theres some massive weak sides to the lifetap playstile aswell massive benefits from it. Again, chose a battleground with some LoS obstacle instead of the standard open terrain. The game doesn't really play that much in the open field as the 6v6 events tend to do anyway. Even extremly open zones like Chaos Wastes LoS gets blocked by the slopes and staues.

[sanii]

Its increadible situational were wich healing setup is the golden one. In a keep seige i wish my Shaman were a DoK every single time. In Murkain Temple or Temple of Isha and a couple of other SC's I wish the Shaman was a DoK every single time. And in open terrain i wish my Zealot or DoK was a Shaman. This is the dynamics of the game. You can't have it all. Theres some massive weak sides to the lifetap playstile aswell massive benefits from it. Again, chose a battleground with some LoS obstacle instead of the standard open terrain. The game doesn't really play that much in the open field as the 6v6 events tend to do anyway. Even extremly open zones like Chaos Wastes LoS gets blocked by the slopes and staues.

i have yet to encounter these 'massive' drawback's on a frequent basis ,as a matter of fact as long as you have 1 target you can heal ur guys half way across the map , the only real time where there is an issue is in the middle of a keep siege and you can't really find a target to heal off.

And even when you don't have a single target unlike the melee heal dok, you aren't in any way shape or form prevented of casting the *eww* 'normal' heals. So it ends up being , normal 'subpar' heals when you don't have any targets and incredibly powerful lifetap heals when you do have targets.

The way some people are panning out AM/Shaman one would think that they lost all of their normal healing abilities in the process

[Danielle]

The current state of ab mode for shaman/AM is as it is. Both sides have access to it and it has been shown it is beatable. I'm surprised no one mentioned 3 healer setup: zealot, heal dok, melee dok or even worse: zealot, ab shaman, melee dok. Not to think about pure evil: double shaman/AM (yes it happened).

It's been beaten by what? Another setup using the same thing? That can hardly be considered an argument for the fact that the thing isn't broken.

In a keep seige i wish my Shaman were a DoK every single time. In Murkain Temple or Temple of Isha and a couple of other SC's I wish the Shaman was a DoK every single time.

Right, because I can't just cast 2 group heals and then pop an Energy of Vaul on the stacked enemy and get my whole group to full health from 1% in a keep siege with proper positioning. Feels totally bad in keep siege man, I cry tears of underpoweredness every time on my Shaman/AM. Not. Keep siege and large scale fights are one of the situations where those skills are the sickest assuming you can get the right positioning. Even if you don't AM/Shaman is a better group heal spammer than DoK without enemies to target, and being in the lifetap spec doesn't particularly hinder that.

[Cimba]

Because pumping out reliable 2k-5k grp heals (not affected by hd), while kiting, every 5s is absolutely balanced!?
I actually think no setup suffers as much against the lifetap as rdps setups. They are profiting the least from lifetap. While running only one tank they can die very fast and there is little the sham/am or any other healer can actually do about it.
If the setup allows mistakes, like a 2-2-2 setup, and the ttk is quite long, lifetap will make the grp immortal.

In theory it is like that, if you want to show up with a rdps grp and prove your claim, I can even help out as whatever, tank, heal or even rdps.

I disagree with your assement of rdps not profiting from life tap heal. While rdps setups probably dont need the large grp heals, they do need mobile healers. More static healers are kind of obstacles when it comes to kiting. It's very bad if you run into them. So life tap healing helps to minimize these movement fails and creates a larger playing field which benefits the rdps groups.

If I'm not mistaken there wasn't any evidence that procs were really an issue in 6on6. And they got burned. So whats the point of proving I'm right or not? I dont even play AM If we run rdps its for the lolz and nothing more

[DefinitelyNotWingz]

They are profiting the least from lifetap.

I disagree with your assement of rdps not profiting from life tap heal.

rly?

[Danielle]

Because pumping out reliable 2k-5k grp heals (not affected by hd), while kiting, every 5s is absolutely balanced!?
I actually think no setup suffers as much against the lifetap as rdps setups. They are profiting the least from lifetap. While running only one tank they can die very fast and there is little the sham/am or any other healer can actually do about it.
If the setup allows mistakes, like a 2-2-2 setup, and the ttk is quite long, lifetap will make the grp immortal.

In theory it is like that, if you want to show up with a rdps grp and prove your claim, I can even help out as whatever, tank, heal or even rdps.

I disagree with your assement of rdps not profiting from life tap heal. While rdps setups probably dont need the large grp heals, they do need mobile healers. More static healers are kind of obstacles when it comes to kiting. It's very bad if you run into them. So life tap healing helps to minimize these movement fails and creates a larger playing field which benefits the rdps groups.

If I'm not mistaken there wasn't any evidence that procs were really an issue in 6on6. And they got burned. So whats the point of proving I'm right or not? I dont even play AM If we run rdps its for the lolz and nothing more

Yes lifetap AM/Shaman are amazing kite healers, but that's part of the point; why should the strongest heals in the game also be able to cast one the move? Also BW/Sorcs procs were broken, but they got overnerfed to oblivion for no reason. Btw from what I hear your guild was the one to invent the AM lifetap and first bring it to the scene (very well done btw, nice discovery) so ye.... Not to mention a kite group should have had run an AM/Shaman before anyway without .ab ex (imo), because of MoM/Sticky Feetz + mobility reasons, toughness HoT on shaman etc. etc.

[Rida]

It's been beaten by what? Another setup using the same thing? That can hardly be considered an argument for the fact that the thing isn't broken.

This is not an argument, just said what has happened.

Not to mention a kite group should have had run an AM/Shaman before anyway without .ab ex (imo), because of MoM/Sticky Feetz + mobility reasons, toughness HoT on shaman etc. etc.

Did you play AM on live? What mobility reasons? Oh yeah lambent aura and .......... thats it. You couldn't even cast healing energy on move. Finally mechanic is useful, BE cast on move is pretty good. Iam not defending EoV/FoDG because I think they need tweaking. Anyway this topic is going to another "WL nerf pet omg OP".

[peterthepan3]

Lest this descend into chaos, informing people that a decision has been made, and ab ex will be allowed in its entirety.

Cue the skill-based pvp!