Incentives

[Razmirth]

So I'm back after a 8 year hiatus from this game. I've kept busy playing many different games, but the one I've played a lot of is eternal crusade.

When I first started playing I thought the game was so hard. So many premades/guild matches due to a low but dedicated population, and as a new player Coming into the game a year or so after release, I was out through the meat grinder. I was so bad when I started I'd struggle to get 5 kills and die like 30 times a match. I play eldar, which makes me even more squishy than everyone else, so I almost gave up due to playing against so many good players.

But then I realized that instead of blaming them for my bad skills, I'd learn from them how to play. I took a stealth class and started sneaking into enemy areas and watching how they set up, points they covered, weapons they used, how they engaged in combat etc. I slowly started to improve, and today I'm one of the officers of a guild with 30 players and I usually get 20-30, kills a match on average, and typically come top 5 each match, taking first place as well.

Moral of the story? Git gud. Be organized, communicate with others in your tier and be bold and invite others you see to war bands and go fight. Tier 1 is constantly overrun by destro, as an order main I don't think there's been a time since I started 2 weeks ago that I've seen any of tier 1 belong to order. Whenever I go into RVR zones there's always 3-6 destro players running around together. It's not hard to figure out...you need all classes to compete effectively in a group, so make friends. If they can do it in tier 1, it can be done in 2-4 as wel.

If you don't wanna do these things then go solo play. Fact is this game is focused on groups and RVR, so if someone's playing WAR and doesnt wanna do those things then I think it may not be a game they will enjoy long term.

[Grolar]

If you insist to play like mindless retard, you gonna lose for sure. You know it better than everyone in this thread mate.

Exactly right. I know both sides. I have played years without a guild in pugs. I have also played with Phalanx. Phalanx is a great guild with skills and organized better than probably any guild on this server, but I'll be damned if I want this game catering to just organized players anymore than I want the opposite. The very fact Phalanx is organized gives them the advantage ,as it should be.

Not sure where this is going. To the point of the topic, balance will make the factions more equal IMO and bring more players back to Destro. Complaining about organized vs disorganized is a moot point. T4 also certainly needs love. The lower tiers are a lot more fun. Maybe its because the zones are smaller and easier to navigate, or the fact you have less abilities to deal with, less lag, or the lords are easier ( they could be a tad harder ). I am loving the lower tier and really disliking T4 at the moment. It wasn't always this way.

[Darosh]

If you insist to play like mindless retard, you gonna lose for sure. You know it better than everyone in this thread mate.

Exactly right. I know both sides. I have played years without a guild in pugs. I have also played with Phalanx. Phalanx is a great guild with skills and organized better than probably any guild on this server, but I'll be damned if I want this game catering to just organized players anymore than I want the opposite. The very fact Phalanx is organized gives them the advantage ,as it should be.

Not sure where this is going. To the point of the topic, balance will make the factions more equal IMO and bring more players back to Destro. Complaining about organized vs disorganized is a moot point. T4 also certainly needs love. The lower tiers are a lot more fun. Maybe its because the zones are smaller and easier to navigate, or the fact you have less abilities to deal with, less lag, or the lords are easier ( they could be a tad harder ). I am loving the lower tier and really disliking T4 at the moment. It wasn't always this way.

How do you plan on balancing a game that is completly centered around groupplay if there are no groups - groups require basic organization; groups start with two player, whats so difficault in finding at the very least one player to play and organize specs/times with? If the games design, every inch of it, wouldn't be hellbent on groupplay, tampering with it to help sustain lonewolves (pugs) wouldn't be a problem ~ however, unless the lonewolves want to bankroll WAR2.0 and completly shaft the initial design to sustain their playstyle I don't see them ever having much fun.

It is as if you walk up to a Ice Hockey game and demand the alley to be defrosted and the teams to stick to one half of the alley so you can
sit on the other half all by yourself - all the while complaining about the teams that actually have fun, and could have more fun if you didn't demand a part of the alley all for yourself. You might aswell just join in on the fun or find something that offers you an opportunity to have fun without **** over others.

Abbd.1: <you> as in generally speaking, not you specifically.
Abbd.2:
Phalanx does not have an edge because they are merely organized - they play the game as it is meant to be played.
Within that scope they have an edge because of their sophisticated organization, however.
You wouldn't care about their basic organization if everyone would make an effort to group, and moreso you would give them credit and be able to appreciate all the extra effort they put into it ~ in a "perfect" RvR environment that is...

E: Words and stuff.

[Daknallbomb]

Aslong As one faction overpop The other Hard orvr is not playable!! Just for farm and Level nothing Else

[Darosh]

Aslong As one faction overpop The other Hard orvr is not playable!! Just for farm and Level nothing Else

One side is overpopulated because the fairweathers do not establish ties within their realms.

The cycle of life:
> play solo
> get **** on by groups, or class xyz in 1vX or pugVpug situations in which certain classes have an edge
> get fed up
> jump ship
> continue to play solo
> not notice the issue as you now ride the zerg alongside the other fairweathers; barely, if ever, find yourself in situations that made you jump ship in the first place, as you don't face any opposition.

Abbd.1:
> act as if nothing is wrong if you encounter people that you have succesfully **** over with your fairweather nonsense, complain yourself if you eventually realize that you now spent all your time PvDooring and competiting with the fairweather hordes in oversaturated lootrolls
> blame devs for supposedly unfair gear distribution

Abbd.2:
Incentive to group up > incentive to play realm xyz.


E: Words and stuff.

[Grolar]

How do you plan on balancing a game that is completly centered around groupplay if there are no groups

Not my job. I'm not on the dev team. I can however make suggestions like you or anyone else, and I have on other threads. This topic is about incentives and I believe Destro doesn't need any. You either play the faction you like or you don't.

[CegeePegee]

I see the comments about how casuals don't have time to "get good" but here's my counter to that. Spoiler: this suggestion *will* require you to interact with at least one other player:

If you're a casual but you spend any time at all in rvr or scs you likely know who the "good" players are for your given class, right? Even if you don't, a quick ask in advice channel will get you more opinions on the matter than you'd ever care to hear. Now, equipped with some names of "good" players, you can start attempting to reach out to those players. Some might be dicks, some might ignore you, some might not be online. Eventually you WILL find someone who loves the game and wants you to love it too and they will be more than happy to give you some pointers. Ask about spec, ask about playstyle tips, ask about gear and what to slot in it. You'd be surprised how easy it can be to learn your class when you socialize with the folks that have already done the leg work for you.

You can also do this here in the forums but honestly, a lot of folks don't haunt the forums and chatting someone up in game will likely be faster. You might even make a new friend.

[Darosh]

How do you plan on balancing a game that is completly centered around groupplay if there are no groups

Not my job. I'm not on the dev team. I can however make suggestions like you or anyone else, and I have on other threads. This topic is about incentives and I believe Destro doesn't need any. You either play the faction you like or you don't.

I didn't mean to force specifics, however I'd be curious as to how you see your suggestion to be implemented in the roughest of terms; what aspect you think needs balancing and whether you meant to address class balance (as I unterstood it) or RvR mechanics; what incentive it would offer - how likely you think its success would be and whether you acknowledge its implications.
You are, of course, free to suggest whatever you want to suggest - I, too, am not a member of staff and cannot silence you, neither would I, as everything, in theory, has the potential to lead into a good direction.

Abbd.1: It should be obvious to everyone, that balancing around temporary shifts of population is not a good idea, moreso that this is how mythic ran the game into the ground over the course of its lifespan - hence my stance on it.
Abbd.2: Mythic tried to cater to everyone for the sake of generating revenue with their subsription-based buisness model and didn't dare to play to their game's strength; embrace its remarkable social aspect. In WAR its communication > skill, which, if utilizied via appropriate community development, would allow for an amazing level of accesibility, massive reduction of conflicts revolving around epeen and a healthy, interwined community.
Abbd.3: Given the game now only exists in form of this private server and absolute nichegame, one cannot and should not try to cater to everyone, much rather embrace and build upon its nature.
You much rather want to have a small but healthy community with the means to further the development with proper feedback, than a big, unhealthy community that is constantly up in arms with each other and the devs by proxy and virtue of perception derived by unsocial play in a multiplayer with a framework like WAR's.


E: Words and stuff.

[Daknallbomb]

If you Start to balance 160 vs 100 we are done here...

[wargrimnir]

If you Start to balance 160 vs 100 we are done here...

If you start to see Staff/Devs theorycrafting things along with this madness, start to worry. Most of the "we should do X" posts aren't even replied to.