[WL vs Mara] NOT a flame thread but honest Discussion.

[roadkillrobin]

I think in general the guardian tree needs some attention aswell.

For example Baited Trap should boost armor of the pet aswell and increase disrupt by like 15% instead of 10% for both.

Lionine Frenzy should have cd cut to 15 instead of 30.

Stalker tactic should reduce the dmg pet takes.

Furoius Mending should heal both WL and pet and heal more frequent.

Aswell as Threat tactic in Axeman needs a redesign.

[Penril]

It doesn't mather what class it is, i was just using WL as an example. And nowere did I say anything anout 12 people focus on the same target. I said 4 dps focusing one target making it unhealeble if burst isn't ballanced properly.

Detaunt, guard, kiting and CC will let you survive 4 people focusing you. Stand still doing nothing of what I just said and of course you deserve to die quickly. What is it that you don't understand?

[roadkillrobin]

It doesn't mather what class it is, i was just using WL as an example. And nowere did I say anything anout 12 people focus on the same target. I said 4 dps focusing one target making it unhealeble if burst isn't ballanced properly.

Detaunt, guard, kiting and CC will let you survive 4 people focusing you. Stand still doing nothing of what I just said and of course you deserve to die quickly. What is it that you don't understand?

Does detaunt, guard, kiting lowers the amount of players? No. Inc dmg increase alot, healing increase but less., Wounds stays the same. Morale stays the same in instanced combat. Debuffs don't stack more. The only thing that increase with numbers are dmg and healing slighty. (until healdebuffs happens) That means there is a point were dmg increase so much that it no longer becomes healeble. This happens somewere between 6-8 dps classes output. In large scale it's between 10-16.

There is a definate threashhold of numbers of players were burst dmg vs healing and mitigration becomes unballanced and it's not 6v6. 6v6 is not even close. Thats why it can't be used as to check for ballance amount of dmg output from a single class. The closer ballancing is done to the breaking point the better the ballance gona be.

Moast the issues in this game in terms of dmg ballance could be fixed by increasing wounds by around 50%. Crit would become less rng, Engies/Maguses would have had time to set up. Early Morale dumps would been less effective and morale rates could been returned to normal so everone get to use their late morales. Setting up burst wouldn't be the only viable strategy to play and atrition based combat could actually be a viable strategy. But due to ballancing the game for 6v6 this isn't possible.

Game experience is imo being hold back due to a format that a vast minority of players are playing and is even considered dead atm.

[TenTonHammer]

Fixing the mastery pathing is also an option ofc. Moving the moast regarded skills higher up.
Imo swapping Force Oppertunity with Whirling Axe and Cull of the Weak with Thin the herd and Fetch from core skill to 9 points into Guardian and make Brutal Pounce a core skill that disarms instead of KD.

And for Marauder, Draining Swipe moved to 5 points, Thunderous Blow to 9 points and Cutting Claw to 13 points. Aswell as moving Guoliotine to 13 and Wave of terror to 5 Points. Making Wave of Mutation a core skill, Terrible Embrace moved to 9 points into Monstr, Wreckingball into 5 points and Concussive Jolt into 13 points.

Now this would be interesting to see.... hmmm.... Brutal Pounce is pretty silly imo gap closer + KD..

I like those suggestions espically the part of requiring to spec for pulls


Such powerful abilites should require mastery point investment and not given freely

[th3gatekeeper]

Fixing the mastery pathing is also an option ofc. Moving the moast regarded skills higher up.
Imo swapping Force Oppertunity with Whirling Axe and Cull of the Weak with Thin the herd and Fetch from core skill to 9 points into Guardian and make Brutal Pounce a core skill that disarms instead of KD.

And for Marauder, Draining Swipe moved to 5 points, Thunderous Blow to 9 points and Cutting Claw to 13 points. Aswell as moving Guoliotine to 13 and Wave of terror to 5 Points. Making Wave of Mutation a core skill, Terrible Embrace moved to 9 points into Monstr, Wreckingball into 5 points and Concussive Jolt into 13 points.

Now this would be interesting to see.... hmmm.... Brutal Pounce is pretty silly imo gap closer + KD..

I like those suggestions espically the part of requiring to spec for pulls


Such powerful abilites should require mastery point investment and not given freely

Yeah I really like these the more I look at this..... I still like the idea of splitting up the defensive stats on Trained to Threaten... Giving Trained to Kill 1 defensive + 1 offensive, and giving threaten 1 defensive + 1 offensive

[Cimba]

I hope this gets discussed within the balance forum again before abilities start moving around.

[freshour]

WL's having to choose would be great . I am still in favor of the pet taking more damage the further it gets from the Lion. Pet management while difficult yields amazing returns if they do it properly.

[dansari]

WL's having to choose would be great . I am still in favor of the pet taking more damage the further it gets from the Lion. Pet management while difficult yields amazing returns if they do it properly.

Cool we'll just do the same for squigs that keep you targeted throughout a siege and continue to sick a horned squig on you in hopes of being a nuisance.

[OldPlayer]

I feel one very important thing need to be reminded:

In a case of Mara/WL nerf enemy RDPS/healers will become stronger (shamans rejoice)
In a case of non-Mara/WL boost enemy RDPS/healers will become weaker

Which one do you prefer?

[freshour]

WL's having to choose would be great . I am still in favor of the pet taking more damage the further it gets from the Lion. Pet management while difficult yields amazing returns if they do it properly.

Cool we'll just do the same for squigs that keep you targeted throughout a siege and continue to sick a horned squig on you in hopes of being a nuisance.

I really don't think anyone would complain/be upset at ANY WL nerf in regards to a similar nerf to their class as long as WL gets some type of nerf/rework lol. But I haven't been on Order in a while, really since T3 and I remember SH's being pretty dang tough at times, but lets be honest. For every 1 SH, there are 4-5 WL's sooooo - something obviously isn't right lol.