An in depth look

[saupreusse]

Well the best gamers in the world dont need assists they are paid to play and train together 8 hours a day. Most are extremely young ( under 25), talented and dedicated. No one of us could ever reach that lvl of skill without quitting their job/family (also most of our community is already too old to start a gaming carrer- but dont say that loud). You are talking about the best players in the world, that have a lot to lose if they shouldnt be able to compete with the others anymore. A normal person that plays an hour in the evening could never get this far even if they were the most talented individual around. Also warhammer sadly has no place in the competitive scene. The gameplay is old and clunky (just like our community - ask my guildies). Lots of players play with a ping over 100 ms and do not know each other - which makes assist addons very useful. And if i take a look at lol, i see they have finally added a Cctv addon in the standard ui after preassure from the pro league. So in the end i wish you the best of luck in finding that hidden gem on our server, but dont be too disappointed if all you get is old men with long beards but thats basically who we are (again - take a look at my guildies).

[k1o3]

Well the best gamers in the world dont need assists they are paid to play and train together 8 hours a day. Most are extremely young ( under 25), talented and dedicated. No one of us could ever reach that lvl of skill without quitting their job/family (also most of our community is already too old to start a gaming carrer- but dont say that loud). You are talking about the best players in the world, that have a lot to lose if they shouldnt be able to compete with the others anymore. A normal person that plays an hour in the evening could never get this far even if they were the most talented individual around. Also warhammer sadly has no place in the competitive scene. The gameplay is old and clunky (just like our community - ask my guildies). Lots of players play with a ping over 100 ms and do not know each other - which makes assist addons very useful. And if i take a look at lol, i see they have finally added a Cctv addon in the standard ui after preassure from the pro league. So in the end i wish you the best of luck in finding that hidden gem on our server, but dont be too disappointed if all you get is old men with long beards but thats basically who we are (again - take a look at my guildies).

Yeah I know ;3 it wasn't so much "do this or you get the hose again" as it was just informative. I mean, in game I always see people asking for advice, albeit sometimes not quite the right kind, so I thought, well, why not give them good advice? Idk, probably waste of time, who knows maybe not. Lol. ;3

[Bobbiom]

10/10 for effort.

[ragafury]

...... The gameplay is old and clunky (just like our community - ask my guildies).....

Was exactly my point of quiting WoW and switching to WAR when they started there streamline, modernification and simplification madness in all parts of the game (WotLK). Really glad I found this server cause DaoC is just too old, and basically I dislike all other mmorpgs I tried for there ultra casual attitude or there ultra fastpathed jrpg combat. And on your point of argument, my mega super tryhard days are over too. I'm just too old. ;( :>

And I was exactly thinking the same, but I think you have put it in better and nicer words.


Carefull, wall of text incoming

Spoiler:

I'm not saying the realm can't stand a guild that strifes for exellence though. And I'm not thinking that 99,9% who are play on this realm are easy farmed pug plebs, in fact many ppl who I know play more than decent. other ppl just want to have fun in a multiplayer game too. And I'm not ashamed to say that I lost with two different premades to a single witch hunter basically on Logans Forge cause we were not paying attention / slacking around. Many ppl played this game for multiple years, which is a factor nobody should ever underestimate. often enough experience > talent.

At first I didn't want to reply to this thread, but I will leave my 2cents here like most of the time.

To the write up in the beginning by Kaspr / k1o3, just because it was my 2nd thought when I read this thread some days ago:
It's a nice write up but ofc, but there is the typical internet forum problem, going hand in hand with it.

For ppl who read forums, and most of them don't only read this forum, know this or much of this already, so there is no new information or revelation in it.
ppl who don't read forums or just don't put as many effort into this game or games in general will not read it either.

However, it is truly strange that ppl don't share there keybinds, enemy optimization and so on, as far as I can remeber that was always a topic on elitepvper.com, readmore.de (endless threads of netsettings and setups for 1.6 xD ) and elitistjerks.com. Because like always, a well played class is better than a "metapick", keybinds and proper setups make this possible and enable players to perform.

so, @Kaspr / k1o3: I don't want to demotivate you, it's ofc a nice write up and a good optimization effort, but the real question is, will people who could really use your write up even notice it?

From a competitve PoV about using addons or not using addons:
in RoR : I think it's more than ok for this game. in largescale I would be blind as a bat tbh, and in sc / smallscale there are some really nice addons that can help filter information and make decisions easier e.g. CCTV (do I use CC break or wait it out? and so on), ofc I don't know every buff debuff symbol, I'm just too long out of this game, and I was never that much into this game, I only know the archtypes of CC. so this addon helps me. As everybody can guess by now I come from a WoW backround too, I did 2x Gladiator / Merciless Gladiator back in S1 / S2 when it was released, and raided complete TBC. I always used addons there, especially in PvE. some stuff was just UI improvement and not really nescessary, other stuff like specific boss debuffs were kinda crucial, compared to this game, I would put "shatter limbs" in RvR on this crucial list for a comparison.

There is on the otherhand something going out of controll when ppl have a messy UI, a UI that looks like a Las Vegas Gambling Automatron, a UI that causes crashes or drops game performance.

If ppl are that good that they don't need addons, I'm glad for them, but since this game has not a fixed or standardized tournamanent format, I would recommend everybody runs just the addons that improve his gameplay, in general.

[k1o3]

...... The gameplay is old and clunky (just like our community - ask my guildies).....

Was exactly my point of quiting WoW and switching to WAR when they started there streamline, modernification and simplification madness in all parts of the game (WotLK). Really glad I found this server cause DaoC is just too old, and basically I dislike all other mmorpgs I tried for there ultra casual attitude or there ultra fastpathed jrpg combat. And on your point of argument, my mega super tryhard days are over too. I'm just too old. ;( :>

And I was exactly thinking the same, but I think you have put it in better and nicer words.


Carefull, wall of text incoming

Spoiler:

I'm not saying the realm can't stand a guild that strifes for exellence though. And I'm not thinking that 99,9% who are play on this realm are easy farmed pug plebs, in fact many ppl who I know play more than decent. other ppl just want to have fun in a multiplayer game too. And I'm not ashamed to say that I lost with two different premades to a single witch hunter basically on Logans Forge cause we were not paying attention / slacking around. Many ppl played this game for multiple years, which is a factor nobody should ever underestimate. often enough experience > talent.

At first I didn't want to reply to this thread, but I will leave my 2cents here like most of the time.

To the write up in the beginning by Kaspr / k1o3, just because it was my 2nd thought when I read this thread some days ago:
It's a nice write up but ofc, but there is the typical internet forum problem, going hand in hand with it.

For ppl who read forums, and most of them don't only read this forum, know this or much of this already, so there is no new information or revelation in it.
ppl who don't read forums or just don't put as many effort into this game or games in general will not read it either.

However, it is truly strange that ppl don't share there keybinds, enemy optimization and so on, as far as I can remeber that was always a topic on elitepvper.com, readmore.de (endless threads of netsettings and setups for 1.6 xD ) and elitistjerks.com. Because like always, a well played class is better than a "metapick", keybinds and proper setups make this possible and enable players to perform.

so, @Kaspr / k1o3: I don't want to demotivate you, it's ofc a nice write up and a good optimization effort, but the real question is, will people who could really use your write up even notice it?

From a competitve PoV about using addons or not using addons:
in RoR : I think it's more than ok for this game. in largescale I would be blind as a bat tbh, and in sc / smallscale there are some really nice addons that can help filter information and make decisions easier e.g. CCTV (do I use CC break or wait it out? and so on), ofc I don't know every buff debuff symbol, I'm just too long out of this game, and I was never that much into this game, I only know the archtypes of CC. so this addon helps me. As everybody can guess by now I come from a WoW backround too, I did 2x Gladiator / Merciless Gladiator back in S1 / S2 when it was released, and raided complete TBC. I always used addons there, especially in PvE. some stuff was just UI improvement and not really nescessary, other stuff like specific boss debuffs were kinda crucial, compared to this game, I would put "shatter limbs" in RvR on this crucial list for a comparison.

There is on the otherhand something going out of controll when ppl have a messy UI, a UI that looks like a Las Vegas Gambling Automatron, a UI that causes crashes or drops game performance.

If ppl are that good that they don't need addons, I'm glad for them, but since this game has not a fixed or standardized tournamanent format, I would recommend everybody runs just the addons that improve his gameplay, in general.

I agree with everything that you said, and unfortunately I don't have an answer for any of it. You're right - the people here probably already know. And you're also correct, I'm no longer in the scene, nor are you. But despite this - i'll still try, I guess? I don't know, take the ol' horse for a ride and hope it still sprints... Remembering back on the days when you were fast.

Who knows. I don't. Hopefully it all helped, my apologies if it didn't. =P

By the way, I realize how ridiculous i'm being - trying to ramp up the competitive scene on a private server. I get it. But oh well, it's who I am I guess lol.

[ragafury]

I think there is nothing to apologize for, if one single player can improve from this, I think it was worth the effort. Ofc like always, more ppl are lurkers than contributers.

thought you could use some neutral feedback on your efforts.

gl with denail for you. even if you are flodding a lot in /6 and ppl trash talk you. always entertaining. anyway, enjoy yourself, but not too much.

[k1o3]

I think there is nothing to apologize for, if one single player can improve from this, I think it was worth the effort. Ofc like always, more ppl are lurkers than contributers.

thought you could use some neutral feedback on your efforts.

gl with denail for you. even if you are flodding a lot in /6 and ppl trash talk you. always entertaining. anyway, enjoy yourself, but not too much.

"He's the hero Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight." - Lt. James Gordon

[k1o3]

So, as i'm not going to keep posting numerous topics just for general advice, I'm just going to add this here. So, earlier in Praag, I was in a Warband that kept getting 'collapsed on' at the keep and getting wiped over and over. When i'd mentioned that we should hit the flank setup first, i was immediately disregarded as the WB leader wasn't native English and thought that my game was crashing, but anyway, the point being: there's a lot of positioning setups akin to Starcraft type of RTS genre games that exist in Warhammer.

For example, the common startegy in SC:BW was for a Protoss player to tri-flank a Terran player in order to collapse on them and separate their siege into three different areas so that their splash damage would not annihilate the entire squad. Sound familiar? Order typically has a heavy RDPS setup, esp BW's. In essence, Order is not even designed to collapse, it's designed to slow crawl.

Why is that relevant? Well, considering the options: if you're assaulting a keep, and there's two warbands, that are presumably waiting to collapse on you, if you're running a traditional format: tanks -> mdps -> rdps-> heal, you're going to get wrecked by their MDPS at your back line.

BUT! You can stop this.

The way to defend against a 'collapse' strat is to 'wall hug', or find a defensive point to which the enemy cannot attack you from both sides. The other way to handle this is to actually attack the flanking team first, before you even attack the opposing team. Unfortunately, it's actually harder to defend against a collapse than it is to preform one. Fortunately enough for Destro, Order doesn't typically have the setup to appropriately make a collapse crew, therefore, Destro ought to be able to defend against it.

I'm actually going to cite Ruin Gaming here. While the average Ruin player was a s keying derp, Arkhaos was a modern day Sun Tzu. The guy knew how to use his forces within their proximity of gaming better than anyone i've ever met. The reason why he was so successful was not his average player, but his ability to execute his players in the best manner possible for what he was trying to accomplish. In fact, many times he was actually able to take IC just by having his players crash the server. Say what you will about Ruin players, but the leaders were tactical geniuses, imo.

So what's the point in this? The point is that you can win open RVR being outnumbered, out geared, and out skilled. Just ask any NA Dark Craag destro player - it happened, frequently. What matters most in RVR is strategy - and to do that we need to be open to the multitude of strategies available based on our needs.

You know what, #$*! it, I'm adding onto this. So, again, sorry if it's WoW related, but it's the best comparison. So I was a RBG leader on Tich for S2 of legion. Our MMR skyrocketed to 2400+ rather quickly, and there was a definitive reason as to how we did this. Most of us were barely arena masters, but it didn't matter. You see, a lot of the objectives in this battlegrounds/scenarios had definitive strategy for winning. I'll give you an example.

So, Arathi Basin. 5 points, evenly matched team via gear and MMR. I used to scream about this on discord all the time (lol), but basically, if you're holding 3/5 points and defending, you're slowly losing. Why? Because a zerg beats a split when it's down, and a split beats a zerg if it's not up. That might not make sense: let me explain. So let's say you have 3 nodes for capture, the other team has 2. Their most common objective is probably going to be sending all their forces to one capture point in order to flip it to a 3v2 instead of a 2v3 (in terms of nodes). You don't really have a defense to that, since you're worn thin (think: Germany WW2).

So what do you do? You attack. You attack their 1 node and disperse your forces thinly on defense. The opposite holds true if you were the one at a 2v3 disadvantage - you actually ignore the attack and zerg point to point, leaving one behind, as their forces are spread to thin to even remotely defend. Essentially though, what i've come to terms with, is typically in a MMO setting the defending team loses. Take that for what you will.


I'll add more later, maybe. Just wanted to add this to the series.

[peterthepan3]

It's nice to see more people interested in & trying to promote competitive play. Server's in dire need of this.

[k1o3]

It's nice to see more people interested in & trying to promote competitive play. Server's in dire need of this.

thanks buddy ;3 - looking forward to the next stream.