An in depth look

[Darosh]

lol I should just leave the advice channel it triggers the hell out of me. It's been like 17 years of it and my mind can't handle that anymore. Sounds like me. On the first question I politely whisper "there is no best class because of xyz bla bla bla" for like twenty minutes and now I'm just foaming at the mouth daring the next person to ask LOL

@darosh why would you not want enemy name plates to hard swap or ally nameplates to cross disengage?

I should've mentioned I use 0 addons in any game that I play. One, it's not tournament legal, which was relevant to me at one time, two, I equate it to game gear. Three, I firmly believe they handicap you and make you a worse player in a purist fashion. Simply put, people crutch on them.

I'd really love to make a Pvp video but unfortunately I'm artistically challenged and clueless on editing >.<

Edit: oh LOL we were talking about the same thing maybe I worded that wrong. I call health bars name plates because of WoW.

The issue with the stock UI is the toll it takes on the performance.

Aside from that enemy/swiftassist is required because... well, I can't be arsed to change my assist macro every single time I am running with new folks; its nigh impossible to change assist on the fly by these normal very means, voice comm alone gets tricky if you run in warband setting - buffhead, too, is a QoL addon; you can figure out most of the stuff you wanna keep track of by paying attention.

Playing without addons is perfectly viable in a <fix> 6man, however.

[Collateral]

Addons making the game worse?? First time I ever hear that. Also, there are no tournaments in this game...it's a dead game. And yes I could agree it's game gear in a way, but it's still gear anyone can get at ANY time.

[Martok]

Don't fall for the "always kill healers first"-schtick:
Pay attention to your targets, period - you are better off killing DPS 7/10 times (doesn't bear the risk of endangering your own backline by being grossly out of position to peel), just pay attention to guards and swap targets accordingly. Furthermore, assist each other ~ don't be headless chicken.

This. You win the internet.

[k1o3]

@Darrosh we don't use assist target macros at all. We're in Discord calling shots. We do too many hard swaps to even consider doing that.

@Collateral let's say you use grid, or squares, or what have you. At some point, you will be unable to play as you did without it. Not only that, your ability to use your other senses such as macro-like things will get steadily worse, because you are no longer relying on them nearly as much. It's the same principle for most things in life, gaming isn't different in this regard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNFFI-VyihI

Here's Snutz after the pro scene in WoW died. Presently he's considered the best player in the world for the game. He's using next to no addons, only SArena (because for no reason whatsoever Blizzard decided you can't move it), and he's using a cooldown tracker, for, pretty much no reason either. At that level he really doesn't need to, I'm not sure why he's doing it. Anyways, and he's using just a redecorated version of the Blizzard party bar that does honestly a worse job at tracking lol but it looks the same, eiher way. This is the best player presently in the world for WoW. (I'd really comment more about GW1/GW2 but i just never was super interested and the other MMO's didnt even have a scene).

So really, he's using no addons. I promise you none of them are using an assist macro lol the entire concept of that is silly from a WoW perspective if people told me they needed a macro to swap onto my kill target id kick them from the party i mean they probably wouldnt be at my mmr to even be in the party but lol. We've been doing hard swaps on calls for over a decade not sure why thats a prevalent thing from assumingly the (DAoC?) community.

Drakedog (China, I believe?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CuJ8B-lqu4 no addons
Gameking (Korea) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXQMGmlB1Fw&t=117s no addons

There's nothing at this point encouraging them to not use them, they believe the same thing.

Oh, we do use BGTargets though, because of the whole clicking-anything-is-for-noobs mentality.

[Dabbart]

Browsing this thread reminds me of he one time I tried Meth...

[Darosh]

@Darrosh we don't use assist target macros at all. We're in Discord calling shots. We do too many hard swaps to even consider doing that.

@Collateral let's say you use grid, or squares, or what have you. At some point, you will be unable to play as you did without it. Not only that, your ability to use your other senses such as macro-like things will get steadily worse, because you are no longer relying on them nearly as much. It's the same principle for most things in life, gaming isn't different in this regard.

Well, here again, depends on the format you play in. Calling shots for six well-coordinated people is perfectly reasonable ~ doing so for 24 people while issueing move orders or whilst playing with randoms that, for whatever reason, cannot use voice comms (either entirely or partially; speak) is rather tricky - assist macros/addons come in handy there.

In regards to addons in generally, yes. I agree, everything that dumbs down stuff will invetiably take its toll on your skills. However, some of the addons enable others to play the game to begin with.
As I've pointed out earlier, people with disabilities have entirely diffrent requirements/needs - I don't even see an issue with nerfedbuttons in these cases, while I'll happily call it noobbuttons in others.

Abbd.:

We've been doing hard swaps on calls for over a decade not sure why thats a prevalent thing from assumingly the (DAoC?) community.

Large scale vs small scale - the visual noise in RvR games is at times ridiculous.

[k1o3]

@Darrosh we don't use assist target macros at all. We're in Discord calling shots. We do too many hard swaps to even consider doing that.

@Collateral let's say you use grid, or squares, or what have you. At some point, you will be unable to play as you did without it. Not only that, your ability to use your other senses such as macro-like things will get steadily worse, because you are no longer relying on them nearly as much. It's the same principle for most things in life, gaming isn't different in this regard.

Well, here again, depends on the format you play in. Calling shots for six well-coordinated people is perfectly reasonable ~ doing so for 24 people while issueing move orders or whilst playing with randoms that, for whatever reason, cannot use voice comms (either entirely or partially; speak) is rather tricky - assist macros/addons come in handy there.

In regards to addons in generally, yes. I agree, everything that dumbs down stuff will invetiably take its toll on your skills. However, some of the addons enable others to play the game to begin with.
As I've pointed out earlier, people with disabilities have entirely diffrent requirements/needs - I don't even see an issue with nerfedbuttons in these cases, while I'll happily call it noobbuttons in others.

I agree. And I'm not saying that my point of view is correctl, it's merely my point of view. The people I look up to do such and such, therefore that's what I do. The post in the beginning, and hopefully this thread, is about sharing what we've learned over the years so other people don't have to do it the hard way, if need be.

And to another note, I would never lead a 24man wb. I tilt hard enough leading 8man raids. God bless you.

[Darosh]

Spoiler:

@Darrosh we don't use assist target macros at all. We're in Discord calling shots. We do too many hard swaps to even consider doing that.

@Collateral let's say you use grid, or squares, or what have you. At some point, you will be unable to play as you did without it. Not only that, your ability to use your other senses such as macro-like things will get steadily worse, because you are no longer relying on them nearly as much. It's the same principle for most things in life, gaming isn't different in this regard.

Well, here again, depends on the format you play in. Calling shots for six well-coordinated people is perfectly reasonable ~ doing so for 24 people while issueing move orders or whilst playing with randoms that, for whatever reason, cannot use voice comms (either entirely or partially; speak) is rather tricky - assist macros/addons come in handy there.

In regards to addons in generally, yes. I agree, everything that dumbs down stuff will invetiably take its toll on your skills. However, some of the addons enable others to play the game to begin with.
As I've pointed out earlier, people with disabilities have entirely diffrent requirements/needs - I don't even see an issue with nerfedbuttons in these cases, while I'll happily call it noobbuttons in others.

I agree. And I'm not saying that my point of view is correctl, it's merely my point of view. The people I look up to do such and such, therefore that's what I do. The post in the beginning, and hopefully this thread, is about sharing what we've learned over the years so other people don't have to do it the hard way, if need be.

And to another note, I would never lead a 24man wb. I tilt hard enough leading 8man raids. God bless you.

Its perfectly fine and - again - I appreciate the effort. Just wanted to point out the various factors that, at times, turn certain addons into actual requirements; RvR games are especially prone to visual noise as stated above ~ soo much noise in fact, that calls are getting really ugly - especially if you have to deal with your own stuff on the run.

GW2 and ESO are an exception for the most part, given how dumbed down their entire combat systems are - especially in their RvR departments you basicially spam stuff without caring much about actual coordination/calls to begin with.
The blop mentality being deployed on RoR originates from these games, given how horribly these games have handeld AoE/targetcaps; mechanical limitations in general.

[k1o3]

Spoiler:

Well, here again, depends on the format you play in. Calling shots for six well-coordinated people is perfectly reasonable ~ doing so for 24 people while issueing move orders or whilst playing with randoms that, for whatever reason, cannot use voice comms (either entirely or partially; speak) is rather tricky - assist macros/addons come in handy there.

In regards to addons in generally, yes. I agree, everything that dumbs down stuff will invetiably take its toll on your skills. However, some of the addons enable others to play the game to begin with.
As I've pointed out earlier, people with disabilities have entirely diffrent requirements/needs - I don't even see an issue with nerfedbuttons in these cases, while I'll happily call it noobbuttons in others.

I agree. And I'm not saying that my point of view is correctl, it's merely my point of view. The people I look up to do such and such, therefore that's what I do. The post in the beginning, and hopefully this thread, is about sharing what we've learned over the years so other people don't have to do it the hard way, if need be.

And to another note, I would never lead a 24man wb. I tilt hard enough leading 8man raids. God bless you.

Its perfectly fine and - again - I appreciate the effort. Just wanted to point out the various factors that, at times, turn certain addons into actual requirements; RvR games are especially prone to visual noise as stated above ~ soo much noise in fact, that calls are getting really ugly - especially if you have to deal with your own stuff on the run.

GW2 and ESO are an exception for the most part, given how dumbed down their entire combat systems are - especially in their RvR departments you basicially spam stuff without caring much about actual coordination/calls to begin with.
The blop mentality being deployed on RoR originates from these games, given how horribly these games have handeld AoE/targetcaps; mechanical limitations in general.

GW2 was the most fun leveling ive had in a game, however.... lol the pvp...

"So, everyone has a dot, a heal, massive cc, good dps? WTF am I watching right now"

[Aurandilaz]

I'm trying to understand the purpose of this thread, you start by giving a generalized lecture about gaming and using keyboard... only to tell us that you're above using addons....???

For example using Buffhead/Enemy/Aura makes it real simple to see when a BW is doing their rotation on you, so you have possible time to detaunt or break LOS before bursting in flames.
The majority of RoR players probably use a large variety of addons because they actually are quite helpful, especially when it comes to gaining vital information about buffs debuffs etc.

image related is an example why using BuffHead/Enemy is vital (so you see the Boiling Blood/WOP in time:

Spoiler: