Gunbad !!

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Darosh
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Re: Gunbad !!

Post#91 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:29 pm

Spoiler:
Hargrim wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:09 pm
Spoiler:
Darosh wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:57 pm
Hargrim wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:42 pm



There were some changes to the way aggro behaves, most recent one should go live on next patch.

Also, what period are you talking about? Last week? Last month? Last year?
Works been a bitch lately, so I can only give a very vague span of the past two-three months.
I know for certain that (in particular) the spider - and trash for that matter - has been a cakewalk before, even with pick up groups.
The only wing that was consistently a mess during the past few months was the right wing, the left wing had a rather fluctating nature to it - at times things were randomly oneshotting party members or behaved rather erratic aggro-wise, whereas at other times it behaved 'normal' (as in: as one would expect from a dungeon in a MMO.
Mid wing used to be the most stable, neither a consistent mess nor fluctating - 'normal'ish bar very rare inexplicable oneshots from trash, atleast in my experience.

All in all the dungeon is manageable, even with the issue I've encountered ... provided the party's moral isn't easily crushed by inexplicable incidents.

I used to run Gunbad semi-semi-regularly with a pocket-Slayer of mine, and even tho we managed to bring a group of atleast four regulars the runs were quite a struggle depending on when we ran (= when the last patch dropped), we eventually called it indefinitely upon encountering left wing's oneshot-shenanigans in two consecutive runs.

Mind you, I don't mean to trash your efforts to reinvigorate PvE in this game, it's just that, in my experience so far things have been rather difficault to calculate ('[have to] spend <???> in a dungeon that might spazz out or spend <personally fancied time> pewpew'ing in the lakes'); e.g.: the wounds debuff thing forced us to call the mid wing run early this week, in PvP this issue is manageable ~ in instanced PvE it's gamebreaking.

May I inquire as to whether it's possible to split the backend of things for PvP and PvE respectively? It appears to me that most of the effort you folks put into the PvE bits are indirectly, unintentionally undone every few patches in.

I guess another 2-3 runs of Q&A runs on dev would be nice to have to find any issues. You are quite vague in what you describe, so I probably won't be able to find out what exactly is happening there without those runs. The oneshoting thing you mentioned is news to be, wounds debuff should be fixed as stated before. Aggro, during test runs and my internal checks was behaving how I expected it to behave, so that's another tough thing to fix, if there is fix needed.

Backend is too complicated to allow split for pvp and pve parts - both run on the same abilities engine and if some abilities act weird (oneshoting?) or overperform it's best to report those on bugtracker and ask for them to be assigned to me and Grunbag.

The custom AI behavior of NPCs (scripts) is separated from other parts of code, so there is that.
I'd have loved to be able to submit the oneshotting we've encountered in mid wing (tired, my bad) left wing as I've spend most of the second run checking combat logs and enemy parsing for any clues as to what is happening, but couldn't make sense of it; find any relevant entries.

In essence it behaved very much like the sewers in terms of oneshotting, just in reverse.
Getting eaten alive by trash** in spite of running full deftard IB with close-to max*** block achieveable on RoR (++40% at the time), and similar avoidance otherwise, aswell as 0% ctbc etc was quite baffling, as was seeing party members die in an instant in spite of being well out of range of cleaves and not subject to NPC aggro.
It might be that these very issues have since been resolved, I haven't run Gunbad often since, as stated earlier.

In regards to backend, I don't want to be a prick and armchair-developer, but it might be reasonable to assign fixed threat-values across the board, so that changes to ability/class mechanic/tactic potency aren't messing with your aggro systems ~ that is if you haven't done so already in some form/it isn't like that by default (like the way taunts are handled by default as 2.5k crits or however it was).

Abbd.:
** The very same trash, pulled the very same way and fought the very same way with but a slight change in group composition (= one dps), that behaved 'normally' in previous runs.
*** OT: WTT firstborn for t4 seals and blorc block tactics.
Congratulations.

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Hargrim
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Re: Gunbad !!

Post#92 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:53 pm

Aggro works like that: for each point of tooltip dmg you generate 1 aggro point, for 3 points of tooltip heal casted on player in NPC aggro list you get 1 aggro point. Changes to abilities and tactics that don't modify the aggro generation at all, except when the ability itself should modify the aggro.
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Darosh
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Re: Gunbad !!

Post#93 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:58 pm

Hargrim wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:53 pm
Aggro works like that: for each point of tooltip dmg you generate 1 aggro point, for 3 points of tooltip heal casted on player in NPC aggro list you get 1 aggro point. Changes to abilities and tactics that don't modify the aggro generation at all, except when the ability itself should modify the aggro.
That's quite interesting. How does conversions influence this? I.e.: AM class mechanic rework and lifetaps (both damage tooltip and heal tooltip in addition to lifetap conversion). Might be worth noting that Ugle was on his AM when we ran mid wing earlier this week.
Congratulations.

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Hargrim
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Re: Gunbad !!

Post#94 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:59 pm

I guess nobody runs AM during the tests :).

My guess would be that running lifetaps will trigger both aggro generation methods.
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Ugle
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Re: Gunbad !!

Post#95 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:02 pm

Tbh the git and spider aggroed the wp as much as me.
Ugle - SW | Amoebas - AM | Amoeba - SM
Gief - SH | Sidathex - WE | Pnzr - BO
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Darosh
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Re: Gunbad !!

Post#96 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:03 pm

Yeah, afterall it doesn't explain the slingshots. But still quite a nice bit of information to have for future dungeons.
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Ugle
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Re: Gunbad !!

Post#97 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:05 pm

Indeed

Edit:
It simply seems to me that heal aggro is a tad overtuned.
Ugle - SW | Amoebas - AM | Amoeba - SM
Gief - SH | Sidathex - WE | Pnzr - BO
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Darosh
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Re: Gunbad !!

Post#98 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:19 pm

Ugle wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:05 pm
Indeed

Edit:
It simply seems to me that heal aggro is a tad overtuned.
I can't imagine any heal you could have possibly used within the initial two seconds of the pulls to 'outperform' both of my taunts (which both were powered by grumpyness in good ol' dwarf fashion and fired off in quick succession due to growing desperation) ~
it'd explain the pingpong of the Git later on, tho.
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Jedii
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Re: Gunbad !!

Post#99 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:48 pm

Detaunt and give your tank time to gain solid agro,there is a timer on bosses but its not a race,slow down a little let each class do its job,just wait like 10 sec before unleashing your full DPS
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Dackle
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Re: Gunbad !!

Post#100 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:30 pm

"...assuming you know how aggro works... ...there is no aggro reset!" ~The Oxnyia Wipe Guy!

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