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If I heal someone outside my group

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darude83
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Re: If I heal someone outside my group

Post#41 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:45 pm

CarniX wrote: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:39 pm Current system is fine.

Just do dps during fights, then rezz/heal after for free zone contribution.
well done.
Fey wrote: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:40 pm I think the current system is most likely the best. Support in general in most game formats is a thankless job. You do it because your good at it or you enjoy it, thems the breaks. The current system for gearing and leveling up encourages group play which is how it should be. Solo healers get the short end, but realistically someone has to.
Oh hey a blanket statement, great. If support was indeed a thankless job, it would be because of people with your attitude. Why did the people who actually built this game think differently?
peterthepan3 wrote: Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:28 pm
Fey wrote: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:40 pm I think the current system is most likely the best. Support in general in most game formats is a thankless job. You do it because your good at it or you enjoy it, thems the breaks. The current system for gearing and leveling up encourages group play which is how it should be. Solo healers get the short end, but realistically someone has to.
Pretty much this.

Our healers are the first to get geared: we pass on conq medals for them, they get their gear first, and they are - for some strange reason - the highest RR in the guild.

Just because Mr Durp is getting an entire medallion and higher RP than you for killing another Durp doesn't necessitate a paradigm shift. You can get gear and renown at a higher rate than said Mr Durp by playing with competent DPS/tanks who prioritise gearing their healers first (as should be the case).

tldr; does the RR/medal system work within groups? yes. Does it work when viewed across archetypes individually? No, someone gets the short straw, but that is where grouping comes into play.
And missing the point once again. Just because you're working around the system, doesn't mean it is not broken.
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adamthelc
Posts: 832

Re: If I heal someone outside my group

Post#42 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:34 am

Fey wrote: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:40 pm I think the current system is most likely the best. Support in general in most game formats is a thankless job. You do it because your good at it or you enjoy it, thems the breaks. The current system for gearing and leveling up encourages group play which is how it should be. Solo healers get the short end, but realistically someone has to.
It doesnt encourage group play, it discourages healers from healing out of group. Those arent the same things.

It doesnt "realistically has to" be that way. Proof is in the fact that when this game was live it wasnt that way. It was concious choice they made when they changed it.

Out of the group healing was over the top, so I have no problem with them toning it down. They just went overboard.

The real issue I have is that you can be a healer totally set up to heal and if you are solo you get more rewards for doing bad dps than healing people. I can do that all day, but the whole time Im doing it, I cant stop thinking about how counterintuitive it is.

The rewards for solo healers dont have to be as much as a healer in a good group. But the rewards for solo healing should be AT LEAST as high as a solo healer doing low damage.

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Vayra
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Re: If I heal someone outside my group

Post#43 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:51 am

I don't mind not getting kill contribution for quests or drops. I would, however, like to see the return of the renown pools applied to players for getting kills. For anyone who doesn't remember, back on live when you got kills a % of the renown earned for the kill (in addition to what you got) is added to a pool. Healing you taps into that pool and shares that renown with the group of the healer.
This was to some degree exploitable by solo healers to gain pretty large amounts of renown for healing random players at a keep siege, but that could be mitigated by reducing the ability to tap into the pool for solo healers. For example by making it always count as having a party of 2/3 so that a solo healer can't get 6x the renown.
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Jedii
Posts: 70

Re: If I heal someone outside my group

Post#44 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:11 am

RR or no RR, your a healer,heal all ! Rez the dead! ,fellow players on the same team are no help to the cause having little or no health or dead. In your group or not ,heal them,Rez them ,keep the fight going!
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roadkillrobin
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Re: If I heal someone outside my group

Post#45 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:11 am

Nah whats the point of ressing and healing allies when you can exclusivly heal your team. If your allies are dead your team will get all the team kill rewards.
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darude83
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Re: If I heal someone outside my group

Post#46 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:04 am

roadkillrobin wrote: Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:11 am Nah whats the point of ressing and healing allies when you can exclusivly heal your team. If your allies are dead your team will get all the team kill rewards.
Exactly this is why good teamplay should be promoted and rewarded, and not discouraged. When is the game more fun for everyone, when everyone is working together, or when everyone is just doing their own thing, and don't care about the players around them?

Bring back the RP Pools, adjust the numbers to reasonable amounts, shouldn't be that hard. I guess it's entirely a political decision, exploiting peoples agreeableness who will heal outside their party anyways.

It's kinda just like with the gender pay gap issue.
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Hargrim
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Re: If I heal someone outside my group

Post#47 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:29 am

roadkillrobin wrote: Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:11 am Nah whats the point of ressing and healing allies when you can exclusivly heal your team. If your allies are dead your team will get all the team kill rewards.
After that post I scheduled appointment with my oncologist.
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roadkillrobin
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Re: If I heal someone outside my group

Post#48 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:01 am

Hargrim wrote: Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:29 am
roadkillrobin wrote: Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:11 am Nah whats the point of ressing and healing allies when you can exclusivly heal your team. If your allies are dead your team will get all the team kill rewards.
After that post I scheduled appointment with my oncologist.
Im just pointing out flaws with it. I'm not in favor of removing rewards for kills. I agree with Nath, that people wouldn't like the removing of kill rewards. Were I completly dissagree is that one archetype, that is over represented btw, are able to gets ALL the rewards for being solo while you say you want to encourage grouping.

The original game increased rewards for grouping in several ways. Faster Morales, more renown, more xp more gold, based on groupsize.
At 6 man size you gained 3 times the rewards of a solo player at some point. This is how you encourage grouping.


I can also tell you that this. The "cancer mentallity" exsmple you refer to does exist on the server where warbands sends in pugs and coop warbands as meatsheilds to take the initial impact and then mop up whats left and collect moast of the rewards for it. It made us completly refusing to work with certain guilds in the past on this server.
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darude83
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Re: If I heal someone outside my group

Post#49 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:49 am

roadkillrobin wrote: Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:01 am
Hargrim wrote: Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:29 am
roadkillrobin wrote: Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:11 am Nah whats the point of ressing and healing allies when you can exclusivly heal your team. If your allies are dead your team will get all the team kill rewards.
After that post I scheduled appointment with my oncologist.

I can also tell you that this. The "cancer mentallity" exsmple you refer to does exist on the server where warbands sends in pugs and coop warbands as meatsheilds to take the initial impact and then mop up whats left and collect moast of the rewards for it. It made us completly refusing to work with certain guilds in the past on this server.
This 100% It's disgusting behaviour, and kinda further encouraged by the current renown distribution. . So far the current solution has only been supported by self-perceived elitists, and by people who are clueless.

There simply are not any valid arguments for it.
Last edited by darude83 on Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Aurandilaz
Posts: 1896

Re: If I heal someone outside my group

Post#50 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:49 am

If want easy renown and fast medals, solo on a dps class.
If you want to carry your realm to victory and push the frontlines towards enemy capital, play a support class.
Once you stand at the gates of Loldorf, all the dps will personally thank all those healers who threw them out of party hots and send silver coins to all those brave defensive tanks whose HoldTheLine efforts allowed the whole realm to push together back the tides of Order roleplayers. Your internal realmpride level will also increase in the end, fostering new age of friendship amongst the true heroes of the realm.

:)
well okay, we might lack a greater campaign purpose for now, but letting support classes get renown rewards from actually providing support to their out-of-party allies is something we had on live, and IMO functioned well. Maybe tweak it some, but the current system where even healing other parties in warband is not rewarded, not to mention throwing heals to randoms in lakes... doesn't really feel right either.
There is a reason why considerable amount of rr80s and rr70+ chars are DPS classes, with relatively less healers and tanks in the upper echelons.
It also feels wrong, because unless you are one of the few lucky ones who get to run scheduled party/wb, you will be among the vast majority of people who pug a lot, and gains from hour spent in lakes roaming can be immense between a well played solo dps class or a tank/healer who really tries hard to help their pug wb or aids soloers, but gains far less from it.

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