Should 6man vs 6man matter in balance discussions?

[dur3al]

Spoiler:

I get what you're saying, that's how the VP system was before too, so one side don't show up to the fight and it blocks progression, I SAID THAT. Which is why I'm defending that they should HELP CONTRIBUTE. You'll still be able to lock a region by capturing objectives alone - albeit with either less rewards (or same rewards as currently is) or taking a longer time. But if you capture a zone when a lot of fighting was done (kills for both sides) the rewards are increased or something like this. There should have SOME sort of incentive.

aswell as how many ppl are even demanding a change like that. how much the game can benefith from something like that, how many ppl even want something like that.... 2 ppl asking for something on the forum especially when they reppresent small scale scneario and thus few ppl per se by size of ther playing group is not = to reppresent the majority of ppl on the server.

Nobody's demanding anything. Its a suggestion to improve current RvR affairs while addressing a bunch of other things too, such as blobbing & giving purpose to everyone involved in any sort of PvP (towards realm progression) - not only those who partake in the keep take. Again, its a suggestion to improve RvR FOR EVERYONE, including large, small, solo scale. Enabling everyone to be able to contribute for realm progression, we also move on from the bickering of "ah you must balance towards large scale because that's the ONLY way to progress oRvR".

What's even funnier, which can easily be related to real life is that you're not even trying to see sense in the argument done, people simply go in denial because you think that its a case of "us" against "them" (2018 politics much) while at the same time you think that you're speaking for the majority.

Simply because its me suggesting... suddenly you all automatically think its to benefit the small scale scene. People - I don't even play this game anymore... And its not because of anything else other then, my buddies don't feel like playing it or can't play atm, but I would honestly like to see the game succeed in the future in a way. I'm done carrying in WAR and I've moved on to carry randoms in PUBG instead:

Spoiler:

[Martok]

A disarm is there to protect against the biggest threat to casters: melee dps.

That may be the default dismissal, but it doesn't address the core issue. Each class is intended by design to be strong and functional in some regards but weak in others, meaning each individual class is itself meant to be balanced in regard to strengths and weaknesses. Remaining with the example specifically what this means is a Ranged class, such as a Magus, is supposed to be effective at dealing ranged damage but not as effective at mitigating melee dps damage as is a Chosen. Otherwise why bother even having multiple classes. Additionally it means that if a melee dps class can close the distance and get within melee range of a Magus or Sorc or Squig Herder or a Shaman, the first thing which happens shouldn't be a disarm, particularly when you account for the fact these classes additionally benefit from knock-downs, knock-backs and disables. The threat to a caster should be a melee dps which has managed to close the distance. However, by assigning every Destruction ranged class a disarm that threat has been mitigated. In addition you appear to be operating under the belief that a disarm is or can only be used in a defensive capacity. That clearly isn't true.

The broader question is how much CC assigned to one individual class is considered enough? I am of the opinion that five different and distinct means available to one individual class to disrupt and disable an opponent or opponents crosses the balance line, and by either design or default encourages the very style of play, for some classes, the powers that be have claimed to not care about.

And personally, I really don't care if a change buffs either faction in 1v1 or 6v6, as those scales don't interest me at all.

Yeah but, there are other players on the server besides you.

[Tesq]

Spoiler:

I get what you're saying, that's how the VP system was before too, so one side don't show up to the fight and it blocks progression, I SAID THAT. Which is why I'm defending that they should HELP CONTRIBUTE. You'll still be able to lock a region by capturing objectives alone - albeit with either less rewards (or same rewards as currently is) or taking a longer time. But if you capture a zone when a lot of fighting was done (kills for both sides) the rewards are increased or something like this. There should have SOME sort of incentive.

i hate respond inside quote so lets make this quick, yes that's how vp system work, exploitable from one side and the other end of it is that if a zone can be lock with out sc then sc win should not be rewarded because it can be skip, if the ppl can exploit it to stop lock due the meccanic matter then we are at the starting point there is not a middle ground here; i usually accept middle ground, but the reality is that ppl of small scale dont like die, and since in orvr you will get zerg at last once eventually thats bullshit for them.
The solution is not REMOVE ppl from orvr but allow small scale ppl to be feel they FIT into orvr. thats my line, that's how i see things, point.... it's subjective to me and me alone. It dont rappresent dev team neither the direction of the game....

aswell as how many ppl are even demanding a change like that. how much the game can benefith from something like that, how many ppl even want something like that.... 2 ppl asking for something on the forum especially when they reppresent small scale scneario and thus few ppl per se by size of ther playing group is not = to reppresent the majority of ppl on the server.

Nobody's demanding anything. Its a suggestion to improve current RvR affairs while addressing a bunch of other things too, such as blobbing & giving purpose to everyone involved in any sort of PvP (towards realm progression) - not only those who partake in the keep take. Again, its a suggestion to improve RvR FOR EVERYONE, including large, small, solo scale. Enabling everyone to be able to contribute for realm progression, we also move on from the bickering of "ah you must balance towards large scale because that's the ONLY way to progress oRvR".


What's even funnier, which can easily be related to real life is that you're not even trying to see sense in the argument done, people simply go in denial because you think that its a case of "us" against "them" (2018 politics much) while at the same time you think that you're speaking for the majority.

i'm not see a war of us vs em, i even throw my suggestion with an exemple how small scale should be made fit into bigger one, i have no part i prefer i like both part of the game... i want giving them objective that only them can do which work togheter in the rvr lake with objective worked on by wb. But again inside that same rvr lake. But since only the small scale community can most likely came up with something like that, for me is obvious from what part of the community this is get vouched, and till i dont see a pool and a number of 72 ppl (which is likely 3 wb which regualary play in rvr at primetime) say we want sc contribuite to lock ------ i wont change my idea------

This is a suggestion push by a minority (dosent matter which one cuz could be either a minority inside the minority of the small scale ppl..) for his "own good and not for the project good" (and there is a difference here).

Simply because its me suggesting... suddenly you all automatically think its to benefit the small scale scene. People - I don't even play this game anymore... And its not because of anything else other then, my buddies don't feel like playing it or can't play atm, but I would honestly like to see the game succeed in the future in a way. I'm done carrying in WAR and I've moved on to carry randoms in PUBG instead:

so you write in a forum for a game you dont play anymore..... giving a suggestion/feedback for something you no longer play and this because ?.....some unkown reason i suppose.....the i dont play this game anymore is and old card man.....

Spoiler:

[bichka]

No. IMO balance should only consider warband scale.

remove WH/WE from game than, they are useless in WB

[catholicism198]

You rarely see any 6v6 in orvr, it's usually 6vpug in which they already have a competitive advantage, and SCs are, as some devs put it, minigames that should not be considered.

[Tesq]

No. IMO balance should only consider warband scale.

remove WH/WE from game than, they are useless in WB

Well first they have aoe option, just the fact that those are crap dosent mean they do not have a place in rvr, wh and we could use a mastery fix for aoe as it could wl...it's fault of mythic for flaw deaign but it's nothing that it cant be changes any class have options to be playable in any enviroment so it should be made viable !

WL/WE most likely need the deeper aoe rewamp as they lack definition; wh at least have the mara moral drain (yes suck version but it can be improved). But wl/we really miss stuff to make em worth, like both 1-2 unique stuff for orvr.

[Feru]

this post needs an goood sound ;P


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[bichka]

No. IMO balance should only consider warband scale.

remove WH/WE from game than, they are useless in WB

Well first they have aoe option

poor version of free choppa's skill while you have to spec tactic(WE) or hit at leat once with single target ability(for WH), still paper armor (choppa - med in green/yellow zone)
i don't want even comment this. i don't know any other class than WE/WH which is so useless in WB.

[Kragg]

I rather have a mechanic to force them to play the damn campaign

If there is something i've learnt in these past few years, is that it is a terrible mistake trying to force people to play the game the way YOU want.

It works both ways, ey?

[Ramasee]

remove WH/WE from game than, they are useless in WB

Well first they have aoe option

poor version of free choppa's skill while you have to spec tactic(WE) or hit at leat once with single target ability(for WH), still paper armor (choppa - med in green/yellow zone)
i don't want even comment this. i don't know any other class than WE/WH which is so useless in WB.

You are correct, but why does that mean delete them lol? Shouldn't you be bringing ideas on how to address that in the gameplay and balance forum?