Do BW cause lack of diversity in order WB

[oaliaen]

try lowering the targets from BW M2 .. maybe ppl can survive a little more and give a nice balanced wb vs wb. Or make a condition like Extra Choppin from Choppa . Who raise the target by 9 and reduce the base damage by 20%

[dansari]

No surprise that I see things a bit different. I am not talking here about removing the M2 from order so the discution on counters is void, I’m simply stating that the classic bomb setup where one class has both the standard damage and moral affects the choice/desirability of the class.
The distributing the instant aoe m2 to another class could help make choices required where they are not now

No worries - disagreement is healthy. But, shall I point out Great Fang?

[dansari]

try lowering the targets from BW M2 .. maybe ppl can survive a little more and give a nice balanced wb vs wb. Or make a condition like Extra Choppin from Choppa . Who raise the target by 9 and reduce the base damage by 20%

Wat

[Shooshpanzerer]

No worries - disagreement is healthy. But, shall I point out Great Fang?

Great Fang is on Marauder, which doesn't have raw conventional damage of BW/Sorc. I guess the proposal is - remove Ruin and Destruction from BW and give it to WL for example. So one class doesn't have both highest conventional damage and a nuke type moral.

[dansari]

No worries - disagreement is healthy. But, shall I point out Great Fang?

Great Fang is on Marauder, which doesn't have raw conventional damage of BW/Sorc. I guess the proposal is - remove Ruin and Destruction from BW and give it to WL for example. So one class doesn't have both highest conventional damage and a nuke type moral.

Marauder is not a typical part of destro warbands? I feel like we're comparing what a premade order wb can do, utilizing what was once one of their only viable wb classes, with pug destro and the pug destro are sad they can't just roflstomp a proper 5-6 BW band.

[ragafury]

Spoiler:

No worries - disagreement is healthy. But, shall I point out Great Fang?

Great Fang is on Marauder, which doesn't have raw conventional damage of BW/Sorc. I guess the proposal is - remove Ruin and Destruction from BW and give it to WL for example. So one class doesn't have both highest conventional damage and a nuke type moral.

Marauder is not a typical part of destro warbands? I feel like we're comparing what a premade order wb can do, utilizing what was once one of their only viable wb classes, with pug destro and the pug destro are sad they can't just roflstomp a proper 5-6 BW band.

Spoiler:

[Acidic]

No worries - disagreement is healthy. But, shall I point out Great Fang?

Great Fang is on Marauder, which doesn't have raw conventional damage of BW/Sorc. I guess the proposal is - remove Ruin and Destruction from BW and give it to WL for example. So one class doesn't have both highest conventional damage and a nuke type moral.

Marauder is not a typical part of destro warbands? I feel like we're comparing what a premade order wb can do, utilizing what was once one of their only viable wb classes, with pug destro and the pug destro are sad they can't just roflstomp a proper 5-6 BW band.

I am simply suggesting a route to increasing the viability of other classes in the game and highlighting the fact that 5+ BW warbands are a thing , this clearly shows that the BW is a crutch that they rely on, once this crutch is gone (others have the m2 )it should be a good point to fix other classes. Just now it feels like with the bw in its current state raising other classes to a level that they can take the bw spot is insane. So short bw too powerful with aoe standard and aoe insta moral, no other class can or should be brought to this level so no other class can compete for a spot.

[wonshot]

So from what view is this actually a problem, are destro mains really this concirned about the viablity options of the order puggies, that they dont get adapted into good guilds? or are you worried we are not having fun on Order and feel forced to play Brightwizards and hate ourself for doing so? (to some degree this is right, because you superblob daily and force us to)

Or is this just your 4th topic where you try to put presure on the Ruin and Destuction Moral2 on Brightwizard

But no matter what you do to damageing morales, it can be stacked on top of eachother to some degree that it becomes unhealable. If you change BW M2 to act like Raze on Tanks, you can just stack even more Brightwizards on top of eachother and the coordinated ticks will still be unhealable, it will just require more players doing so.


So yeah BW is really good at the task it's supposed to be doing, and requires a whole lot of setup around it to be working. A single unguarded, unhealed BW spamming AoE will be easy for any healer to spam groupheal and completly neglect, the 1200 damage burst alone is the same as a Fiery crit. Brightwizards work when a warband is built up around them, it takes coordination to reach criticalmass for the damage to be highenough around the same area. Apart from the aoe damage role in largescale it brings very little utility to a warband, so while you might complain about the consistant damage and burst, it is the whole setup you are actually upset with.


Should we talk about how overloaded Maras are when it comes to warband utility, just an other role that makes a warband funtion like the raw damage dealers, but ofc its easier to complain about the ones getting the lasthits.

[Kabuterimonga]

The problem is M2 1200 AoE damage...it's insta death to anyone near of it, which to any type of MMORPG it's broken, there's no other type of warband that can do such a high constant aoe burst + M2 bomb. Whoever tries to deny this is blind or simply don't wanna face the truth that it is broken and needs a nerf.
How is that where 40+ players are fighting, it ends in no more than 5 seconds...should a big scale fight end it matter of seconds? maybe we think different, you may like a 5 second fight cause you are winning it all the time due to a non balance class and you play that way cause it is broken and you know it, will use it as long as it don't get nerfed of course, it's fun to insta kill everyone...the main principle of pvp is to play the most overpowered class and exploit that untill it gets a proper nerf...for now im bustin my head off trying to find a propa spec on my black ork to not die to your morale bomb, so far i have not been succesfull at it

[wonshot]

Yeah 1200 damage moral is too strong, nerf maras!

Btw this is the puggie order wb right now as we speak:
https://imgur.com/a/cFgvLPO

Better get BW out of the way, its overly played and make no room for other dps classes