Order's overpowered classes.

[Sanao]

LOL Winds Impervious and Spirit Talismans to counter one spec of one class and tank your main stat. Love it

It's interesting that you feel you're in a position to mock anybody else's posts and opinions when your most recent balance proposal is about the removal of a core mechanic of the game.

I know which suggestion I find more ridiculous.

[Sulorie]

LOL Winds Impervious and Spirit Talismans to counter one spec of one class and tank your main stat. Love it

It's interesting that you feel you're in a position to mock anybody else's posts and opinions when your most recent balance proposal is about the removal of a core mechanic of the game.

I know which suggestion I find more ridiculous.

Pretty spot on. ^^

[Tesq]

LOL Winds Impervious and Spirit Talismans to counter one spec of one class and tank your main stat. Love it

is a matter of set up, you get what you wanna get, you can go full banana, balanced or def as long you know what you are doing you can counter classes; also is not that hard for a tank or a healer get those res up and a dps should get a guard always so ye you need to slot those 1-2 talismans because loosing 40 pt str mean loose 8 dmg per hit.......think if you alive is better not?

[Zaxxond]

I don't understand how any destro player could possibly think AM is overpowered. They always underwhelm me every time I find one in a scenario, and never seem to do as much healing as wp/rp.

It's because the DPS AM Andoni. Look him up on SC scoreboards or the kill count in RVR.

[Sulorie]

I don't understand how any destro player could possibly think AM is overpowered. They always underwhelm me every time I find one in a scenario, and never seem to do as much healing as wp/rp.

It's because the DPS AM Andoni. Look him up on SC scoreboards or the kill count in RVR.

I only see him in sc and there the numbers are blown up with aoe dots.
Additional, when looking on the scoreboards one has to assume, that healing is very low in damage spec. Or he just don't have to heal, because the enemy are pugs, who can't make pressure.

[davispeed]

And... what is the rationale for excluding tanks from the poll?

This ^^

SM are OP k bye

[live4treasure]

To be honest, it is a difficult question. Before I say anything, it should be noted that my firm belief is that balancing is not done to appeal to the masses, but to ultimately make as much of a specific class viable as possible. That said, things like Guardian WL are polarizing as well, so having a class that isn't viable in one form of content be overwhelming for another isn't a good thing either.

So is AM a Guardian WL type case? Anyone who says AM deals more damage than an rdps is only half correct. It deals more damage than the currently underpowered Skirmish Shadow Warrior, however the actual damage output difference is a lot less than people think. Part of the reason why a polarizing perspective exists, is because a lot of DPS AMs that used to play all the time back when the class/spec was trash are far, FAR ahead of the average playerbase on gear, renown points and most of all singleminded dedication to one class. When you have someone like Telen go up against a sub 50 or even sub 60 renown player with barely any defensive investment and no guard, of course it's going to feel like a class is op. You can have any class immitate that sort of effect.

That said, I can agree that the healing the class does is a bit much. On the other hand, despite its healing and damage, it is still a suboptimal pick for any form of serious group content, so there's that. There a number of things that can be done to counter dps am, for example punting away the person on whom the AM used Dissipating Energies, you'll suddenly feel that his damage has become far weaker. AM damage is burst-pressure in the sense that you need time to set up your rotation in order to concentrate all your oressure into a 5 second window, but then the two abilities (Dissipating Energies and Searing Touch) that make up 75% of your damage in that window go on cooldown with a downtime of 15 seconds. If the AM fails to score a kill, that means he has to wait 15 seconds to try again, during which time your team won't have as much pressure to deal with and can freely dive him. While a DPS AM can show more tolerance to damage than most other ranged dps, that doesn't mean he can escape the melee train in a group setting. Of course the vast majority don't see that, they just see a notification of their death show up and get angry that some healer class killed them, or attempted to kill a dps AM 1v1 in the lakes with a savagery marauder or choppa or a poorly specced solo magus or whatever else, or that he used self-heals and detaunt with no heal debuff to nullify your damage.

So in short, if people want the class to change to be less opressive to pugs and low geared players, then something's going to have to be given back to them as well to make them viable in more serious levels of play. You can decrease healing, but you're going to have to increase something else, for example a decreased cooldown on their channel to allow AM to keep his pressure up more consistently and not sit around for the next 15 seconds casting 2s spells or a damage increase or the ability to switch his dots to a new target or something to increase their duration. Something. Decrease the damage, class is back to being trash. Decrease the healing and you have to compensate, because the ultimate goal of any balancing is to a) make the class viable for serious content, b) make it fun to play.

I'm saying this because the destruction community, which is incidentally the most vocal on forums and their own in game faction chats when it comes to complaining about specific classes, is going to need to have the full picture if their votes are to have any substance.

[Dammy095]

in my subjective opinion, people think AMs are op( at least why i think so) because of latest addition of tick interval tactic to beam of death for absolutely no reason

[danny262]

To be honest, it is a difficult question. Before I say anything, it should be noted that my firm belief is that balancing is not done to appeal to the masses, but to ultimately make as much of a specific class viable as possible. That said, things like Guardian WL are polarizing as well, so having a class that isn't viable in one form of content be overwhelming for another isn't a good thing either.

So is AM a Guardian WL type case? Anyone who says AM deals more damage than an rdps is only half correct. It deals more damage than the currently underpowered Skirmish Shadow Warrior, however the actual damage output difference is a lot less than people think. Part of the reason why a polarizing perspective exists, is because a lot of DPS AMs that used to play all the time back when the class/spec was trash are far, FAR ahead of the average playerbase on gear, renown points and most of all singleminded dedication to one class. When you have someone like Telen go up against a sub 50 or even sub 60 renown player with barely any defensive investment and no guard, of course it's going to feel like a class is op. You can have any class immitate that sort of effect.

That said, I can agree that the healing the class does is a bit much. On the other hand, despite its healing and damage, it is still a suboptimal pick for any form of serious group content, so there's that. There a number of things that can be done to counter dps am, for example punting away the person on whom the AM used Dissipating Energies, you'll suddenly feel that his damage has become far weaker. AM damage is burst-pressure in the sense that you need time to set up your rotation in order to concentrate all your oressure into a 5 second window, but then the two abilities (Dissipating Energies and Searing Touch) that make up 75% of your damage in that window go on cooldown with a downtime of 15 seconds. If the AM fails to score a kill, that means he has to wait 15 seconds to try again, during which time your team won't have as much pressure to deal with and can freely dive him. While a DPS AM can show more tolerance to damage than most other ranged dps, that doesn't mean he can escape the melee train in a group setting. Of course the vast majority don't see that, they just see a notification of their death show up and get angry that some healer class killed them, or attempted to kill a dps AM 1v1 in the lakes with a savagery marauder or choppa or a poorly specced solo magus or whatever else, or that he used self-heals and detaunt with no heal debuff to nullify your damage.

So in short, if people want the class to change to be less opressive to pugs and low geared players, then something's going to have to be given back to them as well to make them viable in more serious levels of play. You can decrease healing, but you're going to have to increase something else, for example a decreased cooldown on their channel to allow AM to keep his pressure up more consistently and not sit around for the next 15 seconds casting 2s spells or a damage increase or the ability to switch his dots to a new target or something to increase their duration. Something. Decrease the damage, class is back to being trash. Decrease the healing and you have to compensate, because the ultimate goal of any balancing is to a) make the class viable for serious content, b) make it fun to play.

I'm saying this because the destruction community, which is incidentally the most vocal on forums and their own in game faction chats when it comes to complaining about specific classes, is going to need to have the full picture if their votes are to have any substance.

I couldn't agree more, happened to be Order first and AMs are one of my most favored allies was obviously going to end up first as much as I expected SW to end up last.
(WL I heard going to grt reworked because of a technical reason but I decided to include him anyway) along with broken SW.

[Aerogath]

Funny how every stupid AM players makes stupid lies in the discussion thread about the AM mechanics that he isn`t overpowered and the Votes tell exactly the opposite

On my order toon i love Am`s in my group because they are so overpowered, they have nearly everything Dps,Heal,CC,Shield and everything i have to do to save their asses is snaring or kicking an enemy away BALANCED