For the Dev's

[mubbl]

Spoiler:

Last Wednesday in KV - killscores are far from balanced, and there aren't too many "blue" players in top killers list.
Whenever Destro runs organized, Order is getting steamrolled.
This whole thread is kinda absurd... sure, Order has strong classes in smallscale and 1v1 situations, but so has Destro. But when it comes to largescale RvR, Order is in need of some massive buffing...

Thanks for the fake news, maybe add that there was at least 3 organized wbs on destro side and then bitterstones and about like a bit cntk on order side, not to mention, that most of order play rdps st in zerg enviroment...i mean im happy if i have one tank, who may even guard, and one real helaer on order in anykind of pvp orderside...
And it was like the other way around like ~8month ago and there werent any major balance changes

[Sulorie]

A tank having a 10s buff on parry is not equivalent to permanent +160 WS and initiative in one tactic when it has two armour debuffs in the same tree.

True, the mara tactic is worse.

[ragafury]

main issue is that almost all stuff in total got gutted, while destro received some class reworks which aim towards RvR and orders reworks aimed towards smallscale.

logical outcome is that destro got a higher variety in assembling working warbands, while order hasn't, though order still has BW and can get carried by the power of the classes backbone alone. (mostly a pug issue, because the SH rework is also a flop for premade warbands tbh as an example, and BW morale drops and dmg can be countered with wounds and matching resistances and that are just 2 examples)

for the playerbase of this server both realms kinda work (in the random nature of unorganized groups destro just works a bit better because you can invite almost any class to a warband and it works because it had a rework or performed prior anyway), but if you would play competively, I would bet my money on marauders for largescale open field. like all in.
this was partially proofed by a whooping very large number test of maybe 6 fights in the servers history, non the less you just have to look over the skilltrees of mara once you are aware of the fact. however it's not overperforming, it's just not in line with the rest, because there is basically no line on what's considered as in "a good shape" or "working as planned".

overall balance is a flop, gamebreaking and classbreaking bugs don't get fixed etc. (400 BT open tickets concerning abilities alone) (too many ppl tinkered on it while straight ignoring the playerbase and it's feedback or with getting horsewhispered by the same playerbase without factoring in numbers and gameplay knowledge).

and in total the game is really shizophrene and bipolar to say at least..
huge, partially rng dependent geargrinds (which would cater in theory towards highly deticated players(dominator as an example or 2k sc weapons (which are not even BIS in some cases or they are straight BIS depending on class) or conq via medals, or genesis via a not interchangable token system)), with balance catering towards an unknown playerbase, mostly unorganized but than again buffing meta classes synergy like in last balance concerning patch (will be intersting to see other classes to step up to BW with ele debuff now on avaible); in the forums it's getting officially stated that 1v1 is not a thing which balance is made around, but than again on the other hand WL has to maintain it's pet spec in full glory which is exclusively a 1v1 thing, or was, because the class is currently just broken in the core afaik and had already 2 failed attempts to get them in line, where same spec played both times a major role. but than again, meanawhile order is left without a working frontline for RvR, looking forward when that is getting fixed in a non half meassure mode, where a class just doesn't get capabilities but truly performs or it will never and order plays for the rest of this servers existence a 12v11 classes matchup.

On top of that repetitve RvR and PvE content and with last event it seems like scenarios catering towards ppl who just spam them in an unorganized manner, but than again we have a 6v6 scenario and 2 deticated 6v6 maps by original design, and had a point where whole guilds were founded just around that playmode. (and tbh I couldn't care less, but it still adds to the picture).

so first, someone should explain me what's the reason behind all of this, cause I've given up the attempt to understand or to care.

than we can maybe talk about balance.

runefang and the mara mixed tactics are just a waterdrop on a hot stone in the bigger picture. the first is relatively unimportant tbf maybe values are too high but that shouldn't be high priority; the second tries to mask a classes core problem which is burried deep with it's base initiative and high rest chance to receive critical hits on CR40 and the volatile nature of initiatives non linear behaviour, this also has economical influnces on the game, like rare fortune as an example, which is also a point to consider for balance, but as I said, I couln't care less at this point.

enjoy censoring me. or banning. whatever.

[Knowthyself]

Well first of all let me be clear about one single thing that I don't give a damn about the realm vs realm balance. What I am here for is to say that I do not recognise this game anymore. All the toyings with the class mechanichs just to see what it would bring to battlefield without a proper testing process just permutated this game into something freakish. I just login sometimes to check if there is any hope but it takes only 15 minutes max for me to log back off because it doesn't feel like I am playing WARHAMMER anymore. I mean of course you are not a professional game devolopment team to run tests and measure every consequence of the changes you put into the field but then, what made you to think that the player base wanted to change original class mechanics that much. Seriously, when I step into the rvr lake I don't know what to expect from different classes anymore because there have been so many changes on almost all of them. What was your motivation to toy with class mechanics that much when Mythc as a professional game development company hesitated to make maybe 1/5th of the changes you have made in so many years? I am sorry but leading a balance policy based on the player comments on a forum is just useless. Let me tell you the truth ; instead of keeping the game as close as to the original and making changes when it is really necessary due to some game breaking issue etc., you guys just made changes for fun. Maybe only to see if you could really make them or just to dice what would be the consequences. Now go on youtube watch some old videos of war and play ror an hour and come and let me know if you think you have played the same game. Ty

[DanielWinner]

I am sorry but leading a balance policy based on the player comments on a forum is just useless.

Thanks for the comment.

List top 10 changes that completely changed the game so you can't recognize it anymore. Also it's so sad that such a professional and clever Mythic team has killed the game, how could it happen...

[Sulorie]

What was your motivation to toy with class mechanics that much when Mythc as a professional game development company hesitated to make maybe 1/5th of the changes you have made in so many years?

How about Mythic were so bad at balancing that entire mastery paths or classes were subpar for the whole game lifetime.
A professional studio who failed to notice for years, that bombing was a thing, until they got bombed to hell on a test server by EU players.

[CountTalabecland]

I am just blown away by the difference in user experience some people have.
1) Mythic's work on the game was terrible while it was live. The reason why is debatable (i.e. whether it was under funding, incompetence, combination of both).
2) I just don't see how one's conclusion of the past two months or so of this game is that Order is Op, really it just boggles the mind.
3) close this thread, close it now.

[Darks63]

What was your motivation to toy with class mechanics that much when Mythc as a professional game development company hesitated to make maybe 1/5th of the changes you have made in so many years?

How about Mythic were so bad at balancing that entire mastery paths or classes were subpar for the whole game lifetime.
A professional studio who failed to notice for years, that bombing was a thing, until they got bombed to hell on a test server by EU players.

I don't know about you but when i heard that that the Mythic devs got raped by bomb warbands it brought a smile to my face... hell it still does now.

[DanielWinner]

So the time has come.

Whine Festival is over.

Stay tuned.

Locking.