Wam/TUP Order Pug Warband Template

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Wam
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Wam/TUP Order Pug Warband Template

Post#1 » Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:21 pm

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Okay firstly this is just a post/rough guide of some of the basics of large scale orvr/warband setup related...
Order at the moment is usually outnumbered often and I feel its not helping itself, Ideally i wouldn't be the one to try teach/educate as some people might think im being elitest and also my association with destro leading alot (i would also make a guide for destro pugs if they was serverly outnumbered often) ... when im just trying to be helpful but people can think what they want... use or ignore advice its up to you but i will put my opinions and experience to use for the benifit of order, I just think for health of server it would be nice for Order to get a little bit more organised so I try whipped up some information to help any potential pug leader or even pug player / new player maybe find some information they maybe overlooked or wasn't aware of. Nothing super fancy mostly basics :)



Wam/TUP Order Pug Warband Template

P1
Kotbs
SM/Kotbs/IB
BW
BW
WP
RP/WP/AM

P2
Kotbs
SM/Kotbs/IB
BW
Free DPS Slot
WP
RP/WP/AM

P3
Kotbs
SM/Kotbs/IB
BW
Free DPS Slot
WP
RP/WP/AM

P4
Kotbs
SM/Kotbs/IB
BW
Free DPS Slot
WP
AM/RP/WP


Setup is important

I keep in mind that its made for pugs, so with that in mind it as flexible as it can be class wise whilst trying to maintain its efficeny...

As a warband you need to have each part work properly for you to achieve your goals, that's why balanced warbands are usually the best, otherwise there is too much pressure in different deparments if you have a skewed setup with a lack of tanks, dps or healers... aim for 2-2-2 Balance ideally.

Each Party should be balanced and have 2-2-2 Setup... if you can't do this, try to get as many groups as balanced as possible with overflow in party 4 (ideally full warband so UI is not broken RIP P4 If so)

2 Tanks, 2 DPS, 2 Healers per a group... don't be affraid to kick people if they are not following or playing something useless, i.e 2handed tanks, dps healers (unless one runie dps) or dps classes that are useless in large scale (im looking at you elves(invite to 6 man gankers is better) opportunity cost is way too high, good in small scale but suck badly in large in comparison to others... I.e BW brings more raw damage, dwarfs bring more utility, elf doesnt measure up to either im affraid)



Tanks
Tanks should be tanks, focus on survial, i will list solid starter gear and basics of tanking later... no dps wannabee heros you break balance of your party and melt without shield in Orvr, dead tank = useless and takes too much heals away from dps if squishy. Know how to fight walking backwards. (use hold the line and CC buy your team valuable seconds)

DPS
Should be AOE based and proper dps classes, no point bringing a spoon to a gun fight, if you play a small scale hero class stick to 6 man / ganking and make something useful for warband.
Small margins make a big difference in close fights... so the less useless classes the better. Know to pull back before tanks and support melt the front lines of enemy over extenders.
Know who the main assist is and focus damage in that particular area.

Healers
Focus on aoe heals, each class varies a bit... RP can hot more, AM can morale pump / puddles / fast rez / also heal... wp aoe and manage essence use lash (dok name) equivilent to help your heal chain smoother, postioning and movement is everything use your tank shield in front to protect you... don't be affraid to run through your own bomb for protection, just know how to heal and fight on the move.


Maximising

Core classes

4 supportive snb knights

4 WP healers

BW Ideally you want 5-8 of these... if you have less that's not great and could even argue why bother running because your dps output will be weak especially if you are outnumbered. Four is the bare minimum i would recommend for a full warband and that is pushing it. The general rule is the more the better. Even if they are lower geared and renown generally should out perform some classes that are lame for largescale. Order needs all the firepower it can get.

3 RP is good but if you have 2-2 split with AM's its not the end of the world... pro's and con's to both setups. RP's can generally cope better under pressure and help with Action points of wb.

3-4 SM is nice to compliment the SNB knights...

1 AM is good, 2 AM is okay... anymore is not ideal unless you are desperate for healers and no alternatives

1 IB is okay but ideally 0, anymore than this is not ideal unless you are desperate for snb tanks (IB, like elves dps is good at small scale but less ideal in large scale, its above Blackguard though for WB)


Three free dps slots

So these free Three dps slots you have, you have options of what you want and how many... ideally this is where you get your utility from and your best choice of utility is

Engi (one or two is okay... but if you could have another BW)
Slayer (just one unless playing a melee setup which is inferior and everything changes to Bomb setup and against greater numbers)
Runie DPS (just one)
and Witch Hunter is also a viable pick (just one)

So there is some competition for your three dps slots, which do you take / want... this gives you a bit of flexibility in your setup

But only take SW/WL in there current form if there is really no other choice and you are super desperate because of the steep opportunity cost that i previously mentioned... they take up a spot and don't give much in return = weakens your warband is not ideal in my honest and fair opinion. You always have to think of cost of character as dps spots are a premium in particular.

Engi is the best utility, magnet and mines are very important plus in static fights Engi can do good aoe dps. Needs to be Smart/Vocal and pro active applying pressure.

Slayer depends on size of enemy and type of fight, he can do nice debuffs, damage could be better... melee needs to get in right spot and not over extend, its a bit tricky, but brings nice utility to go with warband. Needs good decision making.

Runie dps, brings nice heal debuffs which will make your targets more likely to die which is always a good thing, the issue is they need to be good geared/renown and experienced ideally.

WH, similar to slayer being melee dps can be rough but needs to fight 72+ enemies to get full effects of its morale drain. Needs good target selection. vs 72+ you drain per attack 250 morale, if you fight 6 ppl you drain per attack 62 morale... so it scales with the amount of ppl you fight but since you can only drain 9 targets it doesn't achieve anything since the other 63 guys still get morale up and if you fight less you don't drain enough to stall them or deny them anything nor do you justify your slot by yourself... but at the end of the day WH for warbands works for pugs because it has AOE capabilities, it's just not top dog but can work.

Healers, the rr might vary a couple for starter builds as i try to take into the equation the +1 skill from gear setups from ruin or anni gear on tanks and healers. I tried to aim for rr 40+


wp
http://www.ror.builders/career/warrior- ... ,4155,4153

rp
http://www.ror.builders/career/rune-pri ... ,3858,3846

AM
http://www.ror.builders/career/archmage ... ,3437,3433


Tanks
kotbs
http://www.ror.builders/career/knight-o ... ,3080,3101


SM (*not sure if builder is not updated)
http://www.ror.builders/career/sword-ma ... =2893,2874
tactics: calming the winds, perfect defences, vauls buffer, rugged is what you want


Lowbie IB but they are pretty useless at lower RR in large scale compared to others.
http://www.ror.builders/career/ironbrea ... ,3743,3752

when got full conq and rr 60 this is better and more solid for you and your warband just a steep climb to begin with. (In small scale its alot different)
http://www.ror.builders/career/ironbrea ... ,3744,3752


DPS
BW
im a lowbie build http://www.ror.builders/career/bright-w ... ,3533,3572

Crown of Fire tactics mean lot more Flames of Ruin procs, but if 2 BWs in same party using it, it goes bughammer meaning it randomly decides which bw has 75% chance as tactic says and which BW doesnt get the tactic effect


Engi - Magnet Utility - can go more offensive, but mines and PD is very useful... Tracer rounds if want more damage/higher RR
https://officialrorbuilder.herokuapp.co ... ,3640,3676

RDPS - Runie Pew Pew
https://officialrorbuilder.herokuapp.co ... ,3872,3867

SL - Shatter Limbs
http://www.ror.builders/career/slayer/s ... ,4075,4073

WH - Morale drain - dps needs rr 60 though
https://officialrorbuilder.herokuapp.co ... ,4397,4367

Elves the less said the better as already covered as fairly as possible they designed for different enviroment.



Tanks gear and renown
Ruin then Conq, slot wounds talismans generally, and maybe one or two iniative talismans if needed also (higher rr makes this less needed with more points spent into futile strikes, after evasion is maxed) Tanks should aim for 10,000 hit points+... and maximise their evasion also whilst reducing their chance to be crit (renown in block, DD then parry (parry helps with guard dmg) usually, although Knights need good parry for runefang tactic then futile strikes after this)
get defensive SC weapons lvl 34-39 (45 not worth grind/time spent)
get tome unlock jewlery
The Winds Impervious (0/3):
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13566&hilit=all+tome+unlock see tome unlock guide here (important)
Green belt with block, green cloak with toughness wounds inative is fine filler to begin with

Healers gear and renown
aim for Annilator gear asap, then conq or better(Anni/conq is solid, at higher level some heal classes might prefer different gear)... slot wounds talismans also... put renown into heal crit usually, then deft defender, futile strikes is good choices.
Belt t3 empire influence belt, conq belt, sentinel belt... green belt to avoid is okay filler early on (better than nothing)
Jewls same as tanks, you want 3 from the winds impervious... before you eventually upgrade into genesis jewlery and the like. See link above.
Sc weapons rr 34 or 39 are solid.
Cloak renown cloak is okay with wounds/tough/ini early on, beastlord cloak, red eye cloak are fairly good options afterwards.

Dps gear and renown
Varies from class to class more than other archtypes... sometimes mixing can be ideal at lower level, getting 2-2-2 or some beastlord and merc together... now red eye is more of a thing for some classes and not too unobtainable early on. Eventually then Conq or better when higher.
Slot your Primary atribute dps talismans (str/intel etc) maybe some Weapon skill on some physical dps if you already capped str. put your renown into chance to crit, maybe futile strikes if you have enough spare RR and bad chance to be crit.
Sc wep 34-39 is decent or subjugator from purple bags over rr41. (dont worry about rr 45 sc weapons you need to spend like 100-200 hours compared to 5 hours for rr39 and the difference is minimal)
t3 belt influence reward from empire is again good for crit.
Jewlery whatever improves your primary offensive stat and wounds is not a bad combination to begin with pre genesis.

Tanks basics
once your gear/renown is sorted, you need to know what you are doing
Holding the line is your friend, its one of your best abilities just like taunt, challenge and guard... so please use them as much as you can in the right way. Know how to walk and fight going backwards if needed.
Spam hold the line provide a shield wall for your allies behind you, body block destro from getting past... create some space for your dps and healers to work.
Taunt, use this on healers aoe healing or rezzing... even on lazy tanks on destro who are holding the line interupt them they might forget to reapply hold the line...
Challenge... sometimes just challange their pack of dps and stand to the side can be enough to turn fights in your realms favour.
Guard... always guard your dps, if you don't guard your not tanking and you are a waste of a spot and should not be in a warband or party for that matter, its like a support healer not healing. Also learn to swap guards during fights and even guard other tanks if they are pulled and in trouble. Stay in guard range, you should be near main assist, dps should be near main assist.
CC... learn when and how to use this, please don't be that random swordmaster (or black ork) that just spam's knockback for fun and grants free immunities to everyone... (if you give them free immunities too early they can morale bomb and run you and your realm over with impunity) but if you see them charging you or flanking then it is worth using or if the terrain is in your favour, sometimes a well placed CC is better than a deathblow.
Auras for knights resistances, healing, toughness is generally okay default for support snb knight (surviability is key, destro will get morale bomb way before you do so need to survive this as much as possible)
WW for swordmasters, make a bind when you use it so teammates are aware, save for pushes or counter pushes in clutch moments will help some classes out.

Healers basics
Pre hot players on engage...
Aoe Heal spam alot... (doesnt require Line of sight)
Remember to cleanse as much as possible (Warrior priests in particular)
RP always drop ritual for AP
AM be ready to drop puddle to counter flanks/melee pushes from destro (puddle is one of most annoying abilities in game)
know how to use morale 2 focussed mind to counter pushes, or with pushes ... use it and pop Action point potions for more healing in clutch situations to keep party alive.
Wait for Gaps on rezzing maybe someone else already doing, try not to over rez and forget about healing party.

Dps
Kill stuff
Jokes aside, just learn your class and rotations... pretty sure there will be more individual information on this forums for classes. Having right gear/tactics/morales/talismans and then team synergy is good starting place.
Assist main assist, have a focal point where you want to damage.

Also potions...
always use +armour potion, always use +primary attribute potion (or liniment if rich/gunbad farmer)
use crafted Absorb potion, health regen potion, instant healing potion, also buy instant healing potion with officer medals at vendor. This is your best way to counter morale bomb with correct use of CC and movement. (they have different cooldowns) some characters might want action point potions also one crafted, one bought from vendor with medals.
Also try not to go alone ahead of your army and feed enemy zerg combat morale, destro don't need advantages for early engages.

Ideally order would run 2-3 pug warbands like this in a zone... and if you was getting zerged, you would come together to counter zerg and support each other's flanks... Destro would have a hard time dealing with such firepower... unless very organised / super mass stacked and they wipe one warband by one warband instead of face all together.

As a leader try keep your commands simple/basic/direct as english is likely to be everyone's second language, you can lead on any class tanks and dps have it easier but healer can also lead aslong as people are aware of proxy leader/main assist.

As for your stratergies and tactics that can vary greatly depending on the zone/terrain/numbers/enemies etc

Anyways cheers for reading, thought id put useful information in one place, not interested in any hate comments only positivity... hope it helps contribute somewhat and adds more balance to the fields and less zerging from naughty destro :)

Gl HF
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ragafury
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Re: Wam/TUP Order Pug Warband Template

Post#2 » Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:59 pm

tl;dr
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Wam
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Re: Wam/TUP Order Pug Warband Template

Post#3 » Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:09 pm

ragafury wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:59 pm
tl;dr
There is always one Raga... :lol:

Thing is that other than lead tank job is stay within 30ft of your guard target, use cc and htl. Dps is bomb on the lead, healers have to have a different position.

I could always have gone into greater detail... but tried to remain on point, fair and flexible as can be without compromising setup integrity too much.
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Re: Wam/TUP Order Pug Warband Template

Post#4 » Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:23 pm

Healers, Ruin is ****. Use Devastator into Anni, just do ruin to help tanks/dps and get xp.

Positioning
Dok/wp wants to be inside the bomb 3 feet behind the tanks using aoe for SE generation and to spread counterbomb morale damage.
AP healers further back but tight into back or side of bomb away from enemy, keep an eye out for flanks or 6 mans, don't get picked off.

Leave ressing to AM(s) unless multi people are down, you need to cross hot BW and spam heal across groups since your wb wins based on killing the enemy first and if 3/4 groups die your group still dies. Healing main damage (BW/Sorc) is important, rifters tend to be tough and other dps are either more survivable or shouldn't go in deep.

Wounds > armour, get a second set for 6 man and sc. Make sure your initiative is 200-300 minimum or when you get debuffed you die, renown into heal crit, dodge/disrupt and reduced crit chance. If you hit 0% chance to be crit well done!

The only morale an AP healer needs is focused mind, if you use something else it's either a kill more fight or a keep seige where m4 rezz is very occasionally useful.

Also, you don't have enough AP pots. Hot pots aren't as useful as for tanks but pre poting can help when you need to resposition, hold off on knockbacks if you can survive without since if you bomb it you can kill it but if you punt it then you give up the kill.

Great tldr Wam...

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Aurandilaz
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Re: Wam/TUP Order Pug Warband Template

Post#5 » Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:51 pm

Good guide, problem just lies that Order in general refuses to play enough BWs and keeps rolling bad and useless classes that drag their WB performance down. :)

Could include some tips regarding Morale gameplay, but I guess that category is also somewhat limited due to BW M2 superiority and Maras in general ensuring limited use of Order morales. :D

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Wam
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Re: Wam/TUP Order Pug Warband Template

Post#6 » Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:11 am

Aurandilaz wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:51 pm
Good guide, problem just lies that Order in general refuses to play enough BWs and keeps rolling bad and useless classes that drag their WB performance down. :)

Could include some tips regarding Morale gameplay, but I guess that category is also somewhat limited due to BW M2 superiority and Maras in general ensuring limited use of Order morales. :D
I think order has just been very imbalanced when it comes to their own setups... i.e like you pointed out less desired/effective classes... the bw's they do have are too thinly spread to make a difference and not stacked to create a critical mass... similar with tanks on order side as there was usually never enough of them because they don't look as awesome as Chosen/Black Ork, a lack of frontline without counter damage pressure is not a ideal combo.

so if you have a overflow of less effective DPS, no tanks, too many healers... you create imbalance and your setup is your own weakness before you have already fought so you are handicapping yourself making everything harder than it needs to be.

Partially players/Leader fault for not being strict enough but in pug's you have a more open door policy but you need some standards if you are going to be outnumbered you don't want to be outgunned also as that's not good for the morale of players/realm.
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Re: Wam/TUP Order Pug Warband Template

Post#7 » Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:43 am

I can't remember the last time I saw a warband with even a single bright wizard, let alone 5-8 of them.

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Kabuterimonga
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Re: Wam/TUP Order Pug Warband Template

Post#8 » Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:03 am

omg anoda BW based warband so original, when are we gon get some real balance in dis game an hope for new meta for guild warbands?
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nebelwerfer
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Re: Wam/TUP Order Pug Warband Template

Post#9 » Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:24 am

wizards are superior in blob warfare, and nobody is telling you that you shouldn't play your fav class guys. Just know it takes a LOT more work to get it to work, while the wizard just owns with minimum effort involved.

take slayer for example, if you want crits/burst in the proximity of BW's you need
a) dps rp w armor debuff. which in turn need engi w pierce defence to ensure it lands behind HTL stacks
b) a team that supplies you with crit buffs
c) tactic for critical dmg amplifier, which also requires your healer to keep you around 70% hp for it to take effect(any less and u might regret it i.e be forced to pot and ruin your retribution channel/ detaunt and lose dmg% or worse; die)
d) time rampage right, have a (pref two+) inevitable doom DoT's applied different nearby targets, with long enough duration so they tick to the end of your retribution channel (rng and luck involved on this).
e) getting hit by attacks once eveysecond while NOT being interrupted while channeling retribution, hitting red rage at the last 2-3 seconds of your channel.

goes without saying rampage needs to be up in advance

So if the stars align and you land all this you might deal much burst-damage as bright wizard. But I doubt it :lol:

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DanielWinner
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Re: Wam/TUP Order Pug Warband Template

Post#10 » Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:00 am

nebelwerfer wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:24 am

a) dps rp w armor debuff. which in turn need engi w pierce defence to ensure it lands behind HTL stacks
Pierce defenses tactic doesn’t reduce disrupt rate.
So I guess... busted?
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