Broken WB Balance

[abodam]

Only thing I would consider broken is zealot punt working through walls.
Otherwise saying it has no counters is weird. You cant punt the zealot or kill him. Also you cannot be punted again for 1,5s due to internal CD on the punt.
Also you can run morale pumps AM to counter the drain or deploy more BWs and Slayers instead of WLs and Engis.
But I am sure you tried all possible compositions but those pesky zealots still stop you.

[Karast]

The imbalance is in the willingness to organise a proper warband, disciplined execution of tactics and the willingness of individuals to play what is needed for an optimal composition.
The remarks on a few abilities you've made Karast are not an issue, there are ways around it. Figure them out, compose a proper warband and you'll see that its not as bad as you propose in your initial statements.

A simple taunt will stop the zealot from knocking people around... And that's only one of the tricks you can use.

They are a problem. There are not ways around them. If there were you would have listed them. Taunt does work it is a self buff not a channel.

You cannot speak to these abilities, because there is no defense for them. No one in this thread has made a defense for them except claiming they are not used, which we known they are.

I know it is hard for you to accept, these skills and tactics are a huge balance issue, that only takes a few hours in a WB to see order side. There is no way around them, and they are game breaking.

[ragafury]

The imbalance is in the willingness to organise a proper warband, disciplined execution of tactics and the willingness of individuals to play what is needed for an optimal composition.
The remarks on a few abilities you've made Karast are not an issue, there are ways around it. Figure them out, compose a proper warband and you'll see that its not as bad as you propose in your initial statements.

A simple taunt will stop the zealot from knocking people around... And that's only one of the tricks you can use.

They are a problem. There are not ways around them. If there were you would have listed them. Taunt does work it is a self buff not a channel.

You cannot speak to these abilities, because there is no defense for them. No one in this thread has made a defense for them except claiming they are not used, which we known they are.

I know it is hard for you to accept, these skills and tactics are a huge balance issue, that only takes a few hours in a WB to see order side. There is no way around them, and they are game breaking.

Well you can check our maras vods and see he hasnt slotted them since you are so in our vods.

Order has 3 drains, how about utilizing those (like dnd did, at least they used 1 of them excessively)

[Karast]

Only thing I would consider broken is zealot punt working through walls.
Otherwise saying it has no counters is weird. You cant punt the zealot or kill him. Also you cannot be punted again for 1,5s due to internal CD on the punt.
Also you can run morale pumps AM to counter the drain or deploy more BWs and Slayers instead of WLs and Engis.
But I am sure you tried all possible compositions but those pesky zealots still stop you.

We did you can't push a keep or poster with zealots inside.

You also are not going to focus down a zealot with AoE BW WB, let alone 2-3.

It don't work. That dog don't hunt. Try to yourself if you don't believe me, or the other order WB commanders.

This is hard for you all I know. You take it as a personal attack. But these tactics and abilities are broken. If the situation was reversed even for a week you'd be screaming your heads off. Which is what happened when the drain form Mara was put on WL.

You know it, I know it, we all know it.

[DanielWinner]

I’ve heard that ruski Invasion-Beaver alliance would have an RvR event on February 25th. Let’s see how it will go for them.

I could only advise order WBs to stop picking SWs, Engis, WLs and other RvR crap — stick to BWs like everyone advises you. Maybe some slayers for keks.
Other than this it seems like the problem of unbalance lies somewhere among Order, not destro: 1) Refusal of picking right classes/specs aka pug mentality; 2) BW being the most viable pick.
So all of the mentioned points barely fear me when I have to play in RvR on order and definitely don’t provide me instant OPness when I play destro.

Who knows maybe updated balance team will read this and throw order some bones. Or maybe not :shrug:

[Karast]

The imbalance is in the willingness to organise a proper warband, disciplined execution of tactics and the willingness of individuals to play what is needed for an optimal composition.
The remarks on a few abilities you've made Karast are not an issue, there are ways around it. Figure them out, compose a proper warband and you'll see that its not as bad as you propose in your initial statements.

A simple taunt will stop the zealot from knocking people around... And that's only one of the tricks you can use.

They are a problem. There are not ways around them. If there were you would have listed them. Taunt does work it is a self buff not a channel.

You cannot speak to these abilities, because there is no defense for them. No one in this thread has made a defense for them except claiming they are not used, which we known they are.

I know it is hard for you to accept, these skills and tactics are a huge balance issue, that only takes a few hours in a WB to see order side. There is no way around them, and they are game breaking.

Well you can check our maras vods and see he hasnt slotted them since you are so in our vods.

Order has 3 drains, how babout utilizing those (like dnd did, at least they used 1 of them excessively)

Raga no need to get salty.

You know these are balance issues. All we got left now for drains is WH dragon gun which is in a horrible spec, on a class that was recently stripped of it's AoE. The others were removed. They are gone. We have video as well. We know what we are fighting and we are not blind to the drains. They are a constant feature. The fact that you don't even need all your Mara's running them kind of sells the point here.

[bulgy70]

2. Winds of Insanity ability for Zealot. There is no effective counter for this undefendable immunity ignoring AoE punt. Right now the zealot punt is game breaking since it not only ignores immunities, but is also undefendable and hits through walls. All it takes is 1 punt zealot on a postern door, near an entrance to a keep, or in a tight area to effectively lock down and shut down an order WB. You can't FF down 3-4 zealots, especially when they are funneled up inside a keep. It needs to be removed, or fixed so that it is no longer undefendable, and so that it doesn't ignore immunities.

This comes down to los, los has been a bug bear in this game for sometime, it goes on with Engs shooting player through walls and even pulling players inside of keeps when the doors are up, Even BW aoe pass through and doors.

There are also some of order cc which ignore immunities, both sides have to live with it.

1. Crushing Blows tactic for Mara. There is no effective counter or mirror. This tactic alone keeps order warbands off morale, and effectively removes order morale bombs from the game. 1-2 Mara is enough to continually drain and prevent any AoE WB on order from build effective morales. It's mirror tactic on WH has a positional requirement, on a class that was recently stripped of its AoE. It was briefly mirrored to WL but was then also removed. It needs to be mirrored properly to WL, or removed.

This game is not about mirrors, order have tactic's which desto dont have. Order do have something which does remove and drops desto morales.

[Karast]

I’ve heard that ruski Invasion-Beaver alliance would have an RvR event on February 25th. Let’s see how it will go for them.

I could only advise order WBs stop picking SWs, Engis, WLs and other RvR crap — stick to BWs like everyone advises you. Maybe some slayers for keks.
Other than this it seems like the problem of unbalance lies somewhere among Order, not destro: 1) Refusal of picking right classes/specs aka pug mentality; 2) BW being the most viable pick.
So all the mention points barely fear me when I have to play in RvR on order and definitely don’t provide me instant OPness when I play destro.

Who knows maybe updated balance team will read this and throw order some bones. Or maybe not :shrug:

Can you reply to the main points? Are those abilities balanced? Do they have counters? What are the counters?

No one actually wants to talk about it. A pulsing AoE punt that can't be interrupted, defended against, that ignores immunity, that hits through walls.

A passive tactic that strips massive amounts of morale preventing order front line from playing the morale gain, with no effective mirror.

Are these okay? They are not, and very clearly so.

[mubbl]

Spoiler:

Are you having a joke about this? or have you just got your head in the sand?

For the last 5 months order have been zerging none stop, and desto has had aao most of the time. You have to ask why more people what to play order then desto. Just maybe it is the order side which needs looking at and fixing. But here you are coming on here and saying that desto wb's are unfair and need nerfig.

Why dont you take the time and look at how better order have to desto, why don't you take the time and see how much better classis like the Eng is over the magus, or look and see that order have 3 classis which have a type pf punce but desto only have 1. Or maybe sit down and look at how much easier the BW is over the Socr.

I could go on, you say that the balance is broken, i say take the time and look at how easy it is for order. Even Order say it is easy street for them.

can you explain with examples? can you ellaborate how pounce is effektiv against bomb/zerg meta? or where engi is better then magus? or how the damn bw is better as sorc atm? cause all you say makes me fell its based on feelings

[Karast]

2. Winds of Insanity ability for Zealot. There is no effective counter for this undefendable immunity ignoring AoE punt. Right now the zealot punt is game breaking since it not only ignores immunities, but is also undefendable and hits through walls. All it takes is 1 punt zealot on a postern door, near an entrance to a keep, or in a tight area to effectively lock down and shut down an order WB. You can't FF down 3-4 zealots, especially when they are funneled up inside a keep. It needs to be removed, or fixed so that it is no longer undefendable, and so that it doesn't ignore immunities.

This comes down to los, los has been a bug bear in this game for sometime, it goes on with Engs shooting player through walls and even pulling players inside of keeps when the doors are up, Even BW aoe pass through and doors.

There are also some of order cc which ignore immunities, both sides have to live with it.

1. Crushing Blows tactic for Mara. There is no effective counter or mirror. This tactic alone keeps order warbands off morale, and effectively removes order morale bombs from the game. 1-2 Mara is enough to continually drain and prevent any AoE WB on order from build effective morales. It's mirror tactic on WH has a positional requirement, on a class that was recently stripped of its AoE. It was briefly mirrored to WL but was then also removed. It needs to be mirrored properly to WL, or removed.

This game is not about mirrors, order have tactic's which desto dont have. Order do have something which does remove and drops desto morales.

We are talking about insanely powerful tools, that are different impacting AoE WB balance. That have no effective counters.

They are akin to guard, group heals, AoE cleanese, challenges, and detaunts. You are avoiding the issue.

I know destro is defensive but these skills are crippling and there are no effective mirrors.