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Lets talk about WitchElfs/Witchhunters...Seriously.

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Mythrendir
Posts: 79

Lets talk about WitchElfs/Witchhunters...Seriously.

Post#1 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:02 pm

I will try to make this brief,

PREAMBLE: I begin by thanking the devs for their devoted time on the game and on their constant work-in-progress on balancing classes. The following paragraphs are merely meant to provide a player perspective on a matter that is in need of your immediate attention.

In the history of MMOs, stealth classes have always been a difficult puzzle to balance given that they have one of the most overpowered and unique abilities: That of being able to appear or disappear right in front of your eyes. As such, many developers have provided balancing mechanism such as " can't stealth while in combat or taking damage" or " reducing their survivability by giving them cloth/no armor/lower defensive stats". However, in RoR and specifically after the last Torq patch which unnecessarily buffed these already powerful classes, we now have a class that would baffle every professional gaming developer out there. ( For simplicity reasons, I will use the WitchElf as my reference given that I play the class).

First, lets look at the ridiculousness of the new "Elixir of shadows" spell. A Witchelf, IN THE MIDDLE OF COMBAT, can unilaterally decide to engage or exit a fight by using the Elixir to stealth and increase its speed by 50% while taking damage. To add salt to the wound, they can use the elixir first and then utilize their main prowler stealth ability right after it. This enables them to have a clean escape or to re-engage the fight through new gcd rotation. Furthermore, its armor and stats are fantastic, allowing it to go toe to toe against other dps, healers and even tanks without need of stealth. This is by far the best survivability any class has in the game.

Second, lets look at damage output. As an MDPS, the Witchelf can easily crit for over 1k against a excellently geared player. I have attached one of my many images: https://imgur.com/a/ouAa94d demonstrating that a decently geared WE can simply knock down a HIGH RR and GEARED player and in 3-4 seconds kill the target. The situation is even worse on a lowbie that is without any gear or defensive stats (such as toughness, initiate or wounds) where the kill strike time is reduce to basically 1-2 shotting them. Absolutely preposterous! In contrast, another class with had similar capability (but had no stealth, no elixir and required a pet to do such damage) was WL ( and even the SH at some point) which was immediately nerfed to oblivion and subsequently reverted to a mediocre at best vanilla stage. The hypocrisy is dumbfounding to say the least.

While my main on destro is a WE and I do play dps on both sides, I simply cannot in good conscience sit by and play a class that is disproportionately broken in terms of dps and survivability. The WE before the Torq changes (which I assume were meant to be temporary) was balanced as it could kill just as fast but lacked the superior survivability that it has now. I plead with developers not to proceed with same mistakes of buffing WE/WH that EA did on live.

Thank you for your time and constructive criticism is always welcomed! xox
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kok
Posts: 140

Re: Lets talk about WitchElfs/Witchhunters...Seriously.

Post#2 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:48 am

You have low armor (20%++) and low toughness (200)
You have been debuff by someone.
Northside-KOTBS ,Southside-SW Westsides-WP Eastside-WH,Rightside-WL
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Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: Lets talk about WitchElfs/Witchhunters...Seriously.

Post#3 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:04 am

That dmg doesn't look too high.
Dying is no option.

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Bowldancer
Posts: 293

Re: Lets talk about WitchElfs/Witchhunters...Seriously.

Post#4 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:18 am

I think their damage is fine
but i cannot grasp why they needed a charge with a stealth component
nor why the stagger of the backflip was doubled to 6 seconds.
Grimmsch Grimnirsson (2H Giantslayer, 40/85)
Spoiler:
40+: 2H-CHOPPA, AM, RP, WP, SM, IB, KotBS, WL, WH, BW, ENG, SW
Alts in T4: SHA, SH, BO, BG, CHO, MAR, WE

Ori
Posts: 18

Re: Lets talk about WitchElfs/Witchhunters...Seriously.

Post#5 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:37 am

Mythrendir wrote: Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:02 pm Absolutely preposterous! In contrast, another class with had similar capability (but had no stealth, no elixir and required a pet to do such damage) was WL ( and even the SH at some point) which was immediately nerfed to oblivion and subsequently reverted to a mediocre at best vanilla stage. The hypocrisy is dumbfounding to say the least.
WH/WE not even close with WL.
6k NON-crit damage with knock down, ezpz
https://imgur.com/8KrIVQf
Ori, Orish, Orisham ...

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Nishka
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Posts: 1057

Re: Lets talk about WitchElfs/Witchhunters...Seriously.

Post#6 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:16 pm

My 2 cents from a tank viewpoint: WE is better, because WH struggles against anything armored, while WE opens full def tanks like tin cans, because of non-physical finishers and dots + nearly permanent 50% armor pen.
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drmordread
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Posts: 916

Re: Lets talk about WitchElfs/Witchhunters...Seriously.

Post#7 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:08 pm

Thanks to the 100% uptime of Kisses on every attack the WE has always had amazing dmg burst. The WH, has always been more Def oriented and a bit harder to kill than a WE, but lacks the dmg burst of the WE.

Now we have practically full on 50% at the least armor penetration that does not rely on positioning on the WE, and with one ability scales to 100% non positional armor penetration for the WE. Coupled with the above mentioned damage bonus from kisses on every attack, including stealth openers, and yes, a WE can burn down a def tank.

As for the 2second stealth and 50% run speed boost, this is not so game breaking as you make it sound. First of all every other mdps in the game has it, and they still have goodies that WE/WH does not. Medium armor, viable AoE, ST/Crit boosters, just to name a few.

As for stealth being OP. Keep in mind, a high enough INIT (not even close to maxed out) and you can see a stealther even if stealthed. Dmg can break stealth as can the occasional leaf or blade of grass (a bug left over from the old mythic days).

The only thing I would do across the board to the stealth classes to nerf them is take away the new armor penetration buff that Torq put in. Do not need it. It is overkill.
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RetroH
Posts: 8

Re: Lets talk about WitchElfs/Witchhunters...Seriously.

Post#8 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:18 pm

1v1 situations are irrelevant in a teamplay (6v6+)game, afaik but maybe that just me.

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Nefarian78
Posts: 460

Re: Lets talk about WitchElfs/Witchhunters...Seriously.

Post#9 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:45 pm

I think they're both fine, the only thing that, in my opinion, is too much is being able to do a clean re-stealth after Sanctified Oil/Elixir of Shadows.

They already can use it as a gap closer and to escape, that should be enough for a single skill.
They done stole my character's names. Can't have **** in RoR.

Krima
Posts: 602

Re: Lets talk about WitchElfs/Witchhunters...Seriously.

Post#10 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:21 pm

drmordread wrote: Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:08 pm Coupled with the above mentioned damage bonus from kisses on every attack, including stealth openers, and yes, a WE can burn down a def tank.
Isnt Kisses on a 1 sec cooldown ??? :shock:
Krima - WE RR 87
Carnage :ugeek:

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