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2h tanks guard idea

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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: 2h tanks guard changes

Post#31 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:42 pm

SmackdownNinja wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:24 pm
convexte wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:14 pm
SmackdownNinja wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:17 am
That would cut out BGs only wb spec if that was implemented. They nerfed 2h guard because of SCs not WB play lol. That would only create more problems, not solve them.
BG only wb spec with 2H?Oh lol.You can equip shield, use HtL and be viable and useful for your wb.You can guard and use Dark Protector.Im just scared how 79rr dont know that.
I was talking about a premade wb, not a pug one LOL. Go ahead and try to join a serious premade WB with a SnB BG and let me know how it goes. Also Why would a premade WB take a SnB BG when CHO/BO can guard, use HTL and buff the ENTIRE group. Not even gonna mention the morale pumps that CHO/BO have that the BG doesnt get.
To answer both this and previusly quote

Htl buff 9 target but stack max 3 times which mean you need 3 tank only with shiwed to have a front line in hold the line and a second line buffed by thise 3 tanks.
Of course interrupt, ap management require more tanks to keep it up all the time plus 15% from other tank stack aswell on other tank 45% till 75%.

So to put it simple by remove 1s+b tank your wb loose on just one ppl 15% to doge and disrupt (but he still have 30%).

So for exemple you can take a 2h bg to have otherwise not accessabke utility and also swap 1 hold the line for aoe dmg as in fact bg have his wb spec exatly on 2h build and not on s+b unless you really need an infinite hold the line spammer or someone you can walk inside 1000 bw without miss 1 disrupt....or a party ap battery.
Last edited by Tesq on Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: 2h tanks guard idea

Post#32 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:42 pm

hogun wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:37 pm
the fact that one absorbs better the damage of guard when one is at the 2h rather than the shield is totally not logical also (one can not reach the mm rate of blocking than parry )
This is false: while it is easier to hit higher levels of parry (justified because hitting 80%+ block without channels would be ridiculously OP in largescale), parry does not defend you from incoming ranged and magical projectiles (magical damage is usually the biggest threat to a tank, btw). There is also nothing preventing you from hitting the same levels of parry on a SnB: Oathbound, for example, is not tied to any one weapon type: if you go SnB, invest into both block and parry, then you will be absorbing damage much better than a 2h.
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Kirpich
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Re: 2h tanks guard idea

Post#33 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:52 pm

no shield no block. tank with a 2h get more damage.
why break something that worked for 12 years
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Panzerkasper
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Re: 2h tanks guard idea

Post#34 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:59 pm

peterthepan3 wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:42 pm There is also nothing preventing you from hitting the same levels of parry on a SnB: Oathbound, for example, is not tied to any one weapon type: if you go SnB, invest into both block and parry, then you will be absorbing damage much better than a 2h.
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Re: 2h tanks guard changes

Post#35 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:25 pm

DanielWinner wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:22 pm
Sandskid wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:18 pm ... This would probably make SnB tanks great again in oRvR...
Excuse me, what? Like aren't they already mandatory in RVR? Only pugs or ignorant people pick 2H tanks in WB - no matter what change would happen to SnB, they will continue doing it because they basically don't care or just need people for blob.
I dont think 2H tank in Warband open RvR is useless. Maybe those who goes 2H for lol DPS with fully offensive gear yes. But there are tanks like BG and Kobs who provide AOE wounds debuffs and incoming crit debuff for all realm players. That doesnt seem ignorant nor useles. At least 1 2H kobs and 1 2H BG should be in each warband to provide such debuffs.

Generaly 25% nerf to guard with 2H is not that "huge" deal, gamebreaking etc. Its nothing more than just more preasure on healers who gonna have tough times to keep ppl alive.

I still think, that this guard nerf should be related to focused offence which could help tank to deal more dmg(if increased to + 25% dmg from +15%, armor reduced by 25-30% insted of 33% and guard effectivity down from 50% to 25%) because tanks with this tactic sloted will be really dealing some dmg and would not be considered as proper tanks.
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Acidic
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Re: 2h tanks guard idea

Post#36 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:31 pm

Can not see the relevance to the solution , you propose nerfing s&b skill to encourage s&b tanks to go wb, s&b Warband go for s&b tanks already so no change , just less use for tanks .
The cause as I understand things was 2h Being preferred 6man tank and this is also not addressed. In short random suggestion not helping anything

One solution could be drop the parry amounts granted to 2h by reducing the weapon bonus and /or 2h tactics
As I remember it parry was not able to mitigate damage in live or here until a year or two ago. This means that with that patch the 2h bonus and tactics should have been adjusted to reflect increased value

Just a thought removing 5% parry from 2h tactic and the 10% from the 2h bonus (think that’s what it is) would lead to similar number as now 15% less damage mitigated give or take a few numbers
This would be similar to effect of guard change now
Last edited by Acidic on Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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hogun
Posts: 289

Re: 2h tanks guard idea

Post#37 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:38 pm

peterthepan3 wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:42 pm
hogun wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:37 pm
the fact that one absorbs better the damage of guard when one is at the 2h rather than the shield is totally not logical also (one can not reach the mm rate of blocking than parry )
This is false: while it is easier to hit higher levels of parry (justified because hitting 80%+ block without channels would be ridiculously OP in largescale), parry does not defend you from incoming ranged and magical projectiles (magical damage is usually the biggest threat to a tank, btw). There is also nothing preventing you from hitting the same levels of parry on a SnB: Oathbound, for example, is not tied to any one weapon type: if you go SnB, invest into both block and parry, then you will be absorbing damage much better than a 2h.
thank you for your intervention but it seems to me that we can parry these damage caused by the guard ... if not how the 2H will be a good body guard :) and the damage of guard is not differentiated actualy i think
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Smellybelly
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Re: 2h tanks guard idea

Post#38 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:40 pm

hogun wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:37 pm bonjour,

it is obvious to all that there is a problem with the 2H and the guard. the fact that with a high parry rate (easy to reach) we can absorb 50% magic damage or distance is totally not logical
the fact that one absorbs better the damage of guard when one is at the 2h rather than the shield is totally not logical also (one can not reach the same rate of blocking than parry )
for example we can have 0% chance of defending against a magical attack and at the same time being absorbed with parry 50% of these same magic damage for our guard...
we must find a balanced solution.
I propose that either the damage of guard is defended in the same way as the classic damage, blockage, parry (for cc physique), dispell for magic, dodge for physics at a distance. either the parry is divided by 2 when it defends against the damage of guard.


il est évident pour tous qu'il y a un probleme avec les 2H et la garde. le fait qu'avec un taux de parade éléver (facile a atteindre) on puissent absorbé 50 % de domage magique ou distance est totalement ilogique
le fait que l'on absorbe mieux les domage de garde quand on est a la 2h plutot qu'au bouclier est totalement ilogique aussi.( on ne peu pas atteindre le mm taux de blocage que de parade )
par exemple on peut avoir 0% de chance de ce défendre contre une attaque magique et en meme temps pouvoir absorbé grace a notre parade 50 % de ces meme domage magique pour notre garde...
il faut donc trouvé une solution équilibré.
je propose que soit les domages de garde soit defendu de la meme façon que les domages classic , blocage , parade ( pour le corps a corps), dispell pour la magie , esquive pour physique a distance. soit que la parade soit divisé par 2 quand on ce defends contre les domage de garde.
Your suggestions reflect how you play ingame, wich is chaotic and wierd at best. Running solo into blops of enemies, complete lack of awareness and your suggestion and description here is like a mirror image of your gameplay.

Some facts for you 1: SnB tank absorb much more guard dmg because he use both block AND parry. A 2h tank can NEVER absorb as much damage as a SnB tank, its simply not possible. You argue without knowing the very basics of the game mechanic and so your entire post is just nonsense.

2: Dont bring logical assumptions about how magic dmg should be handled in a GAME, based on theoretical perceptions regarding how magic could possibly be interact in the real world.

Just go home, or run into a zerg screaming with glee but dont spread nonsense.

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Esperflame
Posts: 184

Re: 2h tanks guard idea

Post#39 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:20 pm

If you wanna make SnB tanks more appealing, maybe revert some of the many nerfs you did to them.
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convexte
Posts: 53

Re: 2h tanks guard changes

Post#40 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:29 pm

SmackdownNinja wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:24 pm
convexte wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:14 pm
SmackdownNinja wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:17 am
That would cut out BGs only wb spec if that was implemented. They nerfed 2h guard because of SCs not WB play lol. That would only create more problems, not solve them.
BG only wb spec with 2H?Oh lol.You can equip shield, use HtL and be viable and useful for your wb.You can guard and use Dark Protector.Im just scared how 79rr dont know that.
I was talking about a premade wb, not a pug one LOL. Go ahead and try to join a serious premade WB with a SnB BG and let me know how it goes. Also Why would a premade WB take a SnB BG when CHO/BO can guard, use HTL and buff the ENTIRE group. Not even gonna mention the morale pumps that CHO/BO have that the BG doesnt get.
Serious premade wb dont need 2H tank.Or, let me guess, you playing NA prime time?
For bg/ib place in wb, its all about class ego-mechanics, they always behind others for wb.But still snb BG > 2h BG for mass RvR.
Tesq wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:42 pm Htl buff 9 target but stack max 3 times which mean you need 3 tank only with shiwed to have a front line in hold the line and a second line buffed by thise 3 tanks.
Of course interrupt, ap management require more tanks to keep it up all the time plus 15% from other tank stack aswell on other tank 45% till 75%.

So to put it simple by remove 1s+b tank your wb loose on just one ppl 15% to doge and disrupt (but he still have 30%).

So for exemple you can take a 2h bg to have otherwise not accessabke utility and also swap 1 hold the line for aoe dmg as in fact bg have his wb spec exatly on 2h build and not on s+b unless you really need an infinite hold the line spammer or someone you can walk inside 1000 bw without miss 1 disrupt....or a party ap battery.
When you fighting against 2+wbs, what happens often at EU prime time, u need your frontline, u need your every tank snb in this meatgrinder, cause they have more surviability than 2h anyway.10% crit debuff dont really matters in this situation, it works fine in 6vs6, even WB vs WB (but you dont need this really), when zerg vs zerg it sucks.And even with capped str crit debuff can be blocked or parried.
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