Forts are really awesome at ...

[Hargrim]

Fort "kill" some part of the RvR, sadly... One of the reason im out. Oh wait, nobody care about it right ? Let me say it again then.... im out because the RvR is not the same since Fort are in game....

FORT = From Major Boner to Major deception.

100% agree with the OP btw.

Bye!

[Yaliskah]

suggest:
maybe add last zone's contribution to fort contribution ?

We could condition Forteresse control (taken or defended) to a buff who could increase bags and rewards quality for the winning realm in fortresses, to the ORvR, but there is a risk of massive switch to the buffed realm.

We could increase drop/bag quality in ORvR for attacking side during the fortress. But i fear there would be only 1 faction in the lake. And if we do for both, the issue remains.

Isn't it more or less the same suggestion ?

[Manatikik]

Larger issue is that ORvR rewards mainly come at the end of the zone (Keep take ticks and Zone Flips ticks for RR and Bags at the end). No idea how to fix it but I think its more about that than just Fortresses.

If there was an incentive (besides playing the game) for actively defending a zone then I don't think we'd have this problem; whereas right now a majority of the server are casual/PUG players who will just naturally blob so for the populated side Malus takes away any reward they get besides flips and the underdog side may get AAO but unless they're in an organized group they won't be getting too many kills VS the blob to make use of the AAO.

[anarchypark]

suggest:
maybe add last zone's contribution to fort contribution ?

We could condition Forteresse control (taken or defended) to a buff who could increase bags and rewards quality for the winning realm in fortresses, to the ORvR, but there is a risk of massive switch to the buffed realm.

We could increase drop/bag quality in ORvR for attacking side during the fortress. But i fear there would be only 1 faction in the lake. And if we do for both, the issue remains.

Isn't it more or less the same suggestion ?

i think fort rewards are fine.
problem is right before the fort, where 'don't fight' occur.
you need to open fort to farm end gear. city same.
more often better. both side want to open.
we all know this flaws.
zone locks had became delay. specially last zones.

goal is end gear.
there should be other way than quantity of fort opening.
quality of opening.
epic battles at final zone should give more incentives.

reservation was good incentive.
attackers have to earn it, defenders have to defend.
though not enough.
so, add last zone's contribution into end gear farming.

best option - high contribution at CW + hight contributon at maw.
second option - high contri~ at CW + low contri~ at maw.
third option - low contri~ at CW + high contri~ at maw.
worst option - low contri~ at CW + low contri~ at maw.
quality > quantity
for both attackers and defenders.

it's not perfect. it'll create stalemate.
12hours of KV for example. ( i don't think it's bad but a lot of ppl does. )
it'll create less frequent of 'let's give up'. in theory.

[DirkDaring]

ive lost count of the number of times people in region chat have encouraged people to "throw" the zone so that we could go fort




I rarely play destro, in fact most of my dest toons havent been leveled in 3 years since April 2016, on Tuesday i hadnt played for almost a week, and decided to log on as Destro , on my baby Magus Zaltak.


Order were in Caledor and outer was down, we started rallying in zone, and T4 to get to keep and defend, the zone, we ended up defending the keep, and actually locked the zone preventing Fort.

The whole time we were getting spammed in zone by 2 or 3 players , to stop defending, and let order take the zone , so we could go to fort.

While i have no issues with going to fort, and farming order, i cant see letting any faction, have a zone.
i played the same on live, and in DAOC, etc, while Realm pride may not exist for a lot of the player base, what ever side i am on, its who im playing to win for.

If order or destro want to lock a zone, and push fort, city etc, Awesome i look forward to killing you in the fort, and grats on everyone on bags etc, but they have to actually lock the zone, and earn it, no free rides here.

[harkerkane]

the random retribution for loot gold bag in forteress and the difficulty for attackers to get down the lord with cordinate defenders make that a lots of attackers now afk in forteress just waiting for medals . strange but efficient because if we succeed they have the same chance to win a gold bag and if not, witout any work, they will win easy medals . maybe something to do here

[Aurandilaz]

Issues with Forts;

(I've played both sides and defended and attacked on both sides)

-last 2 weeks or so, defenders win ~90% of forts. (yes, few special victories were fun, mostly its attackers rush, defenders funnel, lord wipes attackers)
-no warband balancing that would make all classes actually help their realm in forts (looking at all the useless mdps standing afk "guarding" prison that has 1-3 enemies inside), 2hander tanks now completely waste of space inside fort area
-BW/Sorc Engi/Magus - freefarm when AoEing into lord room from above - sure its almost balanced since whoever gets to defend can then AoE all the pugs like they were some kind of pve mobs in t1 PQ without defences after lord gives the 1-2 healers in the pugs WB a 10sec KD. It's always fun to see top 10-20 kills go to Sorc/BWs knowing they deserve it. (not even bothering to bring my own Sorc/BW to freefarm medals and renown, since no actual gains after rr80)
-stage 1 is 10 min of AFK, go take a nap, maybe toiletbreak, maybe make food... then return and you are still staring at the door to slowly go down.
-stage 2 barely matters. attacker forms blobs, moves around usual 3-4 close-by flags, defenders do occasional suicide rush outside of fort and wipe. extremely rare case of defender dominating or dragging stage 2 out (which in turn resulted attackers just giving up stage 3 after 1-2 pushes and Lord wiping them). while watching 100 Order run in tight blob formation makes you proud of your realm for managing such good realm coordination, it's pretty much a huge zerg fight with defender just getting zerged in each flag they cap as attackers optimal strategy is to make one big steamroll and just keep roflstomping.
-stage 3; or How I Learned to Love Funneling 60 mins for Free Renown


but in the end, it doesn't matter if your killscore is 50-0 or 0-50, if your side won, you all have equally good chance of winning gold bags (even those heroes who afked 60 min inside jail). however as probability goes, regardless of who wins, your expected Invader medal gain per fort is about 4 medals, win or lose.


keeping up with current levels of enjoyment, I guess within next few months people just stop trying to even push forts.

[CeeJay89]

I share other's sentiments on Forts that incentivizes forfeiting a zone just to participate.

What about separating Forts from regular T4 in terms of zone progression? As in, why not allow any zone to offer a percent chance of proccing a Fortress of its respective pairing?

It's not a perfect solution, but it will at least incentivize people to participate in any and/or all sieges/defenses. This would also place a stronger emphasis on defending against split pushing, where many nearly or completely empty keeps are taken.

If implemented, instead of having a portal that leads to the Forts, you could instead include some other means of instantaneous travel to the Fort. This would also stop other factions from portal camping, something I've heard complaints about too.

Just a suggestion. Unfortunately tying an endgame set like invader to Forts exclusively in its current iteration encourages people to only participate in the last zone of a pairing, and only enough to reserve a spot.

[Fenris78]

Forts need more openings for attackers, more positioning spots for defenders to allow differents approaches and tactical moves.

Right now everyone is blockaded in 3rd floor without any more than same turtle tactic during 1 hour time, wasting everyone time doing nothing (or getting wiped for attackers).

There is no secondary entry, no other option for either side for any other tactical move. At least in keeps we saw various and interesting actions (postern, walls, siege machinery, pincer moves... more than just boring blobbing and hold the line).

Adding to the fact spots are limited in number, and you have to stay for the entire fortress lock duration, after two totally bland and uninteresting stages either, to drop your 4 medals (and a gold bag if you won lottery)...

It's not very compelling, and the stuff is somehow the only reward here (and not even so good for some classes atm).

Forts should be far more compelling, and involving far more various actions than being a clone of any other rvr zone without the fun stuff (siege machinery at the very least)...


So yes, I'm aware Fortresses in their current iteration are far from complete and will be improved over time, but as it stands now there are so many things that can be imlproved, starting by redesigning inner keep architectures to allow more options for both sides.

[Anjanolian]

Fort "kill" some part of the RvR, sadly... One of the reason im out. Oh wait, nobody care about it right ? Let me say it again then.... im out because the RvR is not the same since Fort are in game....

kill some part of the RvR...+1