test guard

[Acidic]

My way of looking at the parry talk.

Parry has higher value to tank than any other class due to gaurd damage avoidance mechanisms.

2h tank are given free parry for just putting on a 2h , This free parry also affects all damage sources when used in gourd . This to me is the area of my concern.
I would suggest that gaurd is not the issue but the duel nature of parry and the amounts stackable by 2h tanks.
Adjust the free parry for weilding a 2h and numbers start to make sense.

[Penril]

2h tank are given free parry for just putting on a 2h

Wrong. Where did you get that from?

[Aurandilaz]

2h parry is not "free" - it comes with very high opportunity cost, that is forfeiting the chance to Block incoming Magical, Ranged and Melee damage. Instead of gaining say, 40 Block defence against all 3 possible attack types, abandoning Block and say going for 80 Parry allows them to defend very often vs Melee dmg, but leaves them wide open vs Magic and Ranged enemy dmg.
Sure, you can then Parry lot of Guard dmg - while melting to other dmg then.

The issue why people think "omg 2h op" comes maybe from the limited use to rdps classes in smallscale situations, where melee trains are best pick atm. Casting isn't just as effective in mobile smallscale environment vs fast moving armored meleetrains. (unless ofc pugfarming enemies with sorc/bw)
Other issue is then limiting various very much wanted smallscale tools like the punt of various tanks behind 2hander requirement - your punting abilities are severely handicapped unless going 2hander on some classes. Afaik, even the classic BO SnB spec was nerfed and some tools locked behind 2hander requirement.
And then people wonder why smallscale tanks go 2hander when their tools are not available unless going 2hander? Ayyy lmao.

In comparison, when considering largescale, a 2hander tank doesn't even exist. No matter how much someone insist "muh BG can do something", yeah nope - not wanted, not gonna live in a real bombing fight. SnB is must unless you want kick from warband.

[bloodi]

It seems like he is mistaking the "25% parry from having ws at all" people pointed out in another thread as something 2h gives, is not.

You get 25% parry as soon as you equip a weapon, 2h or 1h and get some ws, so both 2h and snb benefit from that.

[Penril]

My biggest concern is the amount of lies that people are posting in the forums. I will keep debunking them as long as they appear.

So far, this is the truth:

a) Parry + Block >>> Parry for negating guard damage, or mitigating damage on the tank itself. Fact.

b) 2H does NOT grant free parry. Dual Wield does.

c) 2H tanks can't stack way more parry than SnB. Both can stack pretty much the same, give or take 5% for 2H on some tanks with tactics like Greataxe Mastery or Gud at Big Choppin. Chosen can stack 25% more parry as a SnB though (Mixed Defenses) and SM can get 50% parry/dodge/disrupt from WoDS as 2H.

@bloodi yeah i believe that's what he meant. Which doesn't excuse him, anyway.

[Acidic]

2h tank are given free parry for just putting on a 2h

Wrong. Where did you get that from?

Yes that dude probably did speed reading and read 2h get 10% bonus PARRY and missed the strike through part , that’s my strong suspicion

[Luth]

I agree with Luth here, just because you happen to have more parry then block does not in any way or form diminish the value of block since the rolls are separate and one does not change the other and further the second roll (block) can protect against so much more as well.

You can agree with luth or you can agree with math.

I really tried to explain it with examples and replaced math with words as much as possible.
Apologies if my effort wasn't convenient enough.

[bloodi]

Yes that dude probably did speed reading and read 2h get 10% bonus PARRY and missed the strike through part , that’s my strong suspicion

Well, this thread is so stupid it broke the very fabric of reality, that dude, is you.

You are your own grandfather Acidic.

[Tesq]

Spoiler:

man as i wrote to hogun , it dosent matter

you can have a s+b tank and a 2h tank spec both 18% parry and zero block from renown, ok? then the s+b will still have the s+b block rate

aka 20 rp to both-> end result:

2h-->18% parry and 0 block (loose block rate but gain 20 dps more from 2h)
s+b-->18% parry and 5% block (loose 20 dps more from 2h but gain block rate)

NB:This is the vanilla balance pre masterys spec

It's impossible that with same build s+b is worst than 2h in avoidance IF BOTH SPEC THE SAME WAY s+b is better, if s+b do not spec the same way is for others build reason. The s+b have 2 try to avoid the hit the 2h just one, it dosen't matter how low it is they are still 2 try.

also you wont achive anything buff s+b avoidance by make it additive reagarding 2h. You gona buff something to extreme level like 80%-100% avoidance vs anything while leave 2h the same.

60% parry = 60% overall
50% parry + 10% block = 55% overall
30% parry + 30% block = 51% overall

This is for guard damage. Though even for all damage 2h still get the benefit because they can spec d/d which is another nonmultpliclative check if far cheaper and works 360.

s+b can spec the same way any 2h spec, what changes are masterys...i worte it litteraly up there ten , the rest is personal build options and they have nothing to do with balance. 2h 18% parry are = to 18% s+b parry, s+b also get block rate therefore it' have better avodiance.

Spoiler:

My way of looking at the parry talk.

Parry has higher value to tank than any other class due to gaurd damage avoidance mechanisms.

2h tank are given free parry for just putting on a 2h , This free parry also affects all damage sources when used in gourd . This to me is the area of my concern.
I would suggest that gaurd is not the issue but the duel nature of parry and the amounts stackable by 2h tanks.
Adjust the free parry for weilding a 2h and numbers start to make sense.

then please specify what give those high volume of free parry to 2h which is not also work on s+b please....exept those 3 tactic in game which give 5% if you have slot a 2h.... well i alredy know the answer you wont find any...

[adamthelc]

Parry is better than block when it comes to avoiding guard damage when it comes to spending renown points. Just because you get more for what you spend. And maybe a tank with a shield would sink some points into block instead of parry if they didnt have a ton of renown.

A tank with a shield could get just as much parry if they felt they needed it though.

Really I dont see the point of this thread. Unless it's to say that a 2 handed tank can be too close to a S/B tank when it comes to defending guard damage. They obviously arent going to be better at it. With the exception of maybe a SM, when they are channeling.