SH AA damage not insrease from tactics. (Part 1)

[Penril]

So your answer is to simply use sticky squigs when being pulled

I think his answer was "get in a f*** group". Then you will see how amazing RA is when you have a bazillion enemies on you and you are able to escape them all while your healers keep you alive and your tank swaps guard to you / CCs the ones that might have a chance in catching you.

Then again it is easier to play solo and whine on the forums about the one class that can beat you.

[xanderous]

So your answer is to simply use sticky squigs when being pulled

I think his answer was "get in a f*** group". Then you will see how amazing RA is when you have a bazillion enemies on you and you are able to escape them all while your healers keep you alive and your tank swaps guard to you / CCs the ones that might have a chance in catching you.

Then again it is easier to play solo and whine on the forums about the one class that can beat you.

I love it when people make generalized comments like these, i like to wave at them as they pass me on by.

But mu 6v6, not even talking about that dude, already said its about one class having access to so many tool on top of insane mdps burst and all people are asking for is a little more single target potential for the MSH, otherwise its just gonna be scraped class in the end when people wise up to how frickin awful it is.

[peterthepan3]

As it clearly states in order for it to proc you have to be be physically hit, so a WL can pounce em, pull em or range root snare em way before "run away" can ever proc and it its only 25% it ain't a sure thing, i had hoped for better foresight from the supposed "balance moderator"

If a WL pounces you, or pulls you, you simply use the CC you have at your disposal (disarms, KBs, snares) to alleviate this; it is your prerogative if you choose not to play the class to its fullest. Also, during this time it is very likely that Run Away! will have proc'd at least once. If you still end up dying against a good WL, that is still: a) fine, because it isn't a 1v1 game, and WL is designed to counter kiter RDPS; b) not taking anything away from the tactic being incredibly powerful (which it categorically is).

Having to be hit does not negate from the tactic being insanely good when it does proc, and it is also worth mentioning that it can proc in rapid succession, with very high uptime (25% isn't an issue when you factor in incoming AA damage & ability damage). Bring a healer and tank to the mix (SH makes for an excellent 3-man DPS), and you'll be able to elude and permakite 99% of your opponents.

PS. Snide jabs from you of all people won't keep me up at night.
PPS. If it takes multiple DPS an extended period of time to kill a sole WL pet, then the problem is not with the pet.

So your answer is to simply use sticky squigs when being pulled, yep sure, this is pretty standard, problem is soon after that WL can pounce you, knockdown, dead. so the SH should rely on snares then, ok WL pops Frenzy, ignores all snares, PET catches you, perma snares SH, WL can either again, pounce or charge himself, lets not even bother to address 50% movement speed pet tactic, either way he is going to catch him.So i use disable pre-emptively, he pounces BUT can't stun lock me for 4 secounds all whilst his pet is eating your face, which is an issue because they alone do enough damage on their own.

Yes "run away" procs often but it still requires to be hit in the first place, and even if you have it active, but it does not refute what i originally pointed out, it won't stop a pull or or pounce into chain stun lock to death.

Trying to imply that people don't understand basics of a class just paints a picture of how feedback is processed around here.
P.S. well i would not presume upon the king of all snide comments to
PPS. Every 6 man i have seen btw has had to dedicate a certain amount of time to kill the pet, i was not saying its a large amount but when compared to he SH pet its frickin lifetime buddy.

The point is that the SH has more tools than any other RDPS to help him copy with a WL's onslaught. I conceded that a WL will still probably win against a Ranged SH (assuming equal skill) but the point was that RA is nowhere near as bad as is being purported to be the case.


If you insist on talking from a solo perspective, then I would suggest you respec your melee SH to better counter a mobile MDPS with the highest frontloaded burst in the game; it is possible to defeat WLs with a toughness/hp regen melee SH spec. Hell even if you still lose, losing 1v1 against WL is not an issue whatsoever in a game that is centered around GvG/WBvWB because the moment you bring healers and tanks to both sides is when you really get to see how potent RA can be (look at the 6v6 tournaments as of late to see how even a DPS Shaman can render a WL useless with his snares/seemingly permanent RA uptime).


Being hit in the first place is, again, not an issue when you bring healers and tanks into the mix, and when talking about viability of a class/spec, we should always assume healers and tanks are present (otherwise Choppa/SL would be considered the weakest class in the game).


Why would RA help you survive against a pull-into-KD combination? That...that isn't what it's supposed to do anyway; that's what detaunt/heals/guard swaps are for (reiterating that 1v1 does not matter in the grand scheme of things).


Melee SH isn't terrible whatsoever; perhaps the issue lies in how you insist on playing it. It is not a White Lion, and is more suited towards annoyance/disruptive play, with AoE utility/tools that are designed to mess up the backline in largescale environments.

Can he achieve a modicum of ST burst when spec'd as such? Sure. Should he achieve WL levels of ST burst when you factor in everything else he can provide? You already know the answer.

[xoonerfree]

Territorial aggression mention only melee Abilities . AA is not a ability and not a ranged or melee one neither.

It says attacks though, so i dont know where you are coming from.

SW one is a good exemple , it mention AA damage increase not abilities

I dont think you understood him either, he is complaining that the sw stance gives those things and wants them for the SH too.

Lol! Good reference. You backhanded the red text responder with facts.

[Niky]

Run away is completely useless now

This is comedy gold. Also: if Stickzy is who I think he is, then I'm inclined to believe him over 99% of posters when discussing Melee SH.

@Nyky

Expecting a Melee SH to deal WL/MSW levels of ST burst, while having access to amazing AoE utility, better AoE dps than either of the other two, and the potential to **** up backlines better than any other class (pounce, AoE KB, AoE CD increaser, etc) = lol. You seem to forget that the Melee SH's potency within a WB/RvR completely dwarfs that of either the WL or the Melee SW.

That's some expert logic there.

Lol. Who is the expert? Who thought of doing this?
First destro class with pounce. With AOE specification. And without spamming AOE ability. My congratulations.

Destro need it? Realy?

[Niky]

Melee SH designed to mess up the backline in largescale environments.

Do you even read yourself? " to mess up the backline in largescale environments" - its just **** lol xD

[qwerty113]

Ye sure lets make tons of melee squig burst much more highter.. Squig melee dps almost like wl's and he defensive like a tank and you want more buff's ?

[wachlarz]

Ye sure lets make tons of melee squig burst much more highter.. Squig melee dps almost like wl's and he defensive like a tank and you want more buff's ?

My ranged shy with full van have 60 toughnes. One debuff from set and i have 0 toughnes. With armor pot i have i think 1,8 k armor. How much Wl can reduce armor? So am a 6k dumny with zero toughnes and armor.

[Ugle]

Entertainig thread, 10/10

[xanderous]

If a WL pounces you, or pulls you, you simply use the CC you have at your disposal (disarms, KBs, snares) to alleviate this; it is your prerogative if you choose not to play the class to its fullest. Also, during this time it is very likely that Run Away! will have proc'd at least once. If you still end up dying against a good WL, that is still: a) fine, because it isn't a 1v1 game, and WL is designed to counter kiter RDPS; b) not taking anything away from the tactic being incredibly powerful (which it categorically is).

Having to be hit does not negate from the tactic being insanely good when it does proc, and it is also worth mentioning that it can proc in rapid succession, with very high uptime (25% isn't an issue when you factor in incoming AA damage & ability damage). Bring a healer and tank to the mix (SH makes for an excellent 3-man DPS), and you'll be able to elude and permakite 99% of your opponents.

PS. Snide jabs from you of all people won't keep me up at night.
PPS. If it takes multiple DPS an extended period of time to kill a sole WL pet, then the problem is not with the pet.

So your answer is to simply use sticky squigs when being pulled, yep sure, this is pretty standard, problem is soon after that WL can pounce you, knockdown, dead. so the SH should rely on snares then, ok WL pops Frenzy, ignores all snares, PET catches you, perma snares SH, WL can either again, pounce or charge himself, lets not even bother to address 50% movement speed pet tactic, either way he is going to catch him.So i use disable pre-emptively, he pounces BUT can't stun lock me for 4 secounds all whilst his pet is eating your face, which is an issue because they alone do enough damage on their own.

Yes "run away" procs often but it still requires to be hit in the first place, and even if you have it active, but it does not refute what i originally pointed out, it won't stop a pull or or pounce into chain stun lock to death.

Trying to imply that people don't understand basics of a class just paints a picture of how feedback is processed around here.
P.S. well i would not presume upon the king of all snide comments to
PPS. Every 6 man i have seen btw has had to dedicate a certain amount of time to kill the pet, i was not saying its a large amount but when compared to he SH pet its frickin lifetime buddy.

The point is that the SH has more tools than any other RDPS to help him copy with a WL's onslaught. I conceded that a WL will still probably win against a Ranged SH (assuming equal skill) but the point was that RA is nowhere near as bad as is being purported to be the case.


If you insist on talking from a solo perspective, then I would suggest you respec your melee SH to better counter a mobile MDPS with the highest frontloaded burst in the game; it is possible to defeat WLs with a toughness/hp regen melee SH spec. Hell even if you still lose, losing 1v1 against WL is not an issue whatsoever in a game that is centered around GvG/WBvWB because the moment you bring healers and tanks to both sides is when you really get to see how potent RA can be (look at the 6v6 tournaments as of late to see how even a DPS Shaman can render a WL useless with his snares/seemingly permanent RA uptime).


Being hit in the first place is, again, not an issue when you bring healers and tanks into the mix, and when talking about viability of a class/spec, we should always assume healers and tanks are present (otherwise Choppa/SL would be considered the weakest class in the game).


Why would RA help you survive against a pull-into-KD combination? That...that isn't what it's supposed to do anyway; that's what detaunt/heals/guard swaps are for (reiterating that 1v1 does not matter in the grand scheme of things).


Melee SH isn't terrible whatsoever; perhaps the issue lies in how you insist on playing it. It is not a White Lion, and is more suited towards annoyance/disruptive play, with AoE utility/tools that are designed to mess up the backline in largescale environments.

Can he achieve a modicum of ST burst when spec'd as such? Sure. Should he achieve WL levels of ST burst when you factor in everything else he can provide? You already know the answer.

And here we devolve into 6v6 argument again, dude for the most part i don't even care that WL has perfect counter mechanic to RDPS that was not even the reason i was getting into it, i was referencing all that stuff in the context of the thread, repeating myself here as in WL has access so so much utility as well as insane burst damage from WL and pet. MSH is underperforming in single target dps, the pet is a joke and will just get deleted by most dps class in a few secounds, so your forced to use TA tactic, rip all your pet abilities, no armor debuff, no heal debuff, no single target dot potential, so many useful abilities get disabled when in squig armor form.

I understand that a MSH vs WL is totally doable, have had success with this myself but it really requires "sneaky strike to proc" if it don't your pretty much screwed assuming the WL isn't under geared. But single target effectiveness isn't worth considering in such circumstances because you don't need a heal debuff or dots to fight him 1v1, only in group v group, how about that, i just made a point.

So just warbands then, ok why would we chose that over say a sorc or choppa or even a mara, without any of these, you just lose to better aoe burst potential and maras morale drain. There is so much aoe flying around that squig leaping into anything outside of guard range is a rookie move, only useful time is when enemy warband is retreating so its good for catching people trying to mount. Again Sneaky strike needs to proc, cause if parried, which can be easily done i might add, that's 10s without defensive proc which you absolutely need because all gear sets aren't compatible with mdsp beyond basic stat conversion, no parry as an example, no access to defensive genesis jewellery.

MSH needs looking at, i'd even say even forgive their lack luster single target potential if they had something else to add to warbands.