working as intended

[ahzzag]

Maybe it could be an option (although im not prefer that) to add an effect on Vengeful of Nagarythe, on Stady Aim or even particular skills when under effect of VoN like Rapid Fire or Brutal Assault to give certain percentage to bypass Armor.
But this should be in my opinion bound to scout stance to express advantage of range combined with "longtime aimed arrows" to respect class mechanics, not just running around pewpew in skirmish

[Mausini]

For ASW:

Melee Snare is missing

AOE Detaunt without slotting a tactic

Str tactic that doesn't debuff your Tough to absurd low levels

Root breaker

Melee AOE skills (Your skirmish AOE damage as ASW is extremely crappy)

Gap Closer that doesn't automatically locks you out from any other good skill/build option if skilled

Very high RR, gold and gear requirement to make it work compared to other melee classes

You can somehow play around that disadvantages but you still need to put a lot of effort into it and at some points you will never get even decent results (like aoe damage as ASW)

On the other hand you get a lot of nice stuff like ranged attacks for not feeling absolutely useless in keep fights and so on. Good tankyness vs physical damage classes.
Anyway. If you compare melee SW's tools with SH you might get a clue what I do mean with "full working melee class".

But to be honest. The whole discussion was about the ranged aspect of SW, not the melee one. Melee is cool and compared to ranged over buffed in the damage department. Should ranged SW not be viable because melee is? Probably not, right?

The point is- you can't have both highest melee dmg on order + decent ranged dmg in same spec, and the mdps tools which you listed/ more ranged dmg- if you want buffs if those areas, sw melee dmg will have to be adjusted accordingly.

I am not sure about the highest damage thing just because one person claimed it (nothing personal, I don't know what spec, gear and RR your Choosen has).
If nerfs on ASW are needed to get the job done, do it. I would greatly appreciate that. The state of SW right now (dominating melee spec on a ranged class) is not healthy anyway.

[Sulorie]

The problem in OP wasn't damage, it was the lack of armor and toughness debuff.
Additionally the OP shouldn't think to solo pressure a detaunting healer.

[ahzzag]

The problem in OP wasn't damage, it was the lack of armor and toughness debuff.
Additionally the OP shouldn't think to solo pressure a detaunting healer.

Agree, as most classes are not able to do so.

[Knowthyself]

Ask zeromancer for tips.

That's simply suggesting someone to play like a bitch. Can't believe this guy is even considered as a good player lol... However, with the current situation of ROR I shouldn't have been suprised to begin with maybe..

[saupreusse]

To add my input to this discussion.

On my chosen, the class that manages to hit me the hardest is melee SW. Not bw, not engi, not wh/slayer.

So as far as "Melee damage is good but a lot of tools are missing to play SW as a "true" melee class.", being hardest hitting melee class atime on order side while also having a decent ranged options- without changing spec- does brings a question what exactly do some sw believe is missing from the class.

For ASW:

Melee Snare is missing

AOE Detaunt without slotting a tactic

Str tactic that doesn't debuff your Tough to absurd low levels

Root breaker

Melee AOE skills (Your skirmish AOE damage as ASW is extremely crappy)

Gap Closer that doesn't automatically locks you out from any other good skill/build option if skilled

Very high RR, gold and gear requirement to make it work compared to other melee classes

You can somehow play around that disadvantages but you still need to put a lot of effort into it and at some points you will never get even decent results (like aoe damage as ASW)

On the other hand you get a lot of nice stuff like ranged attacks for not feeling absolutely useless in keep fights and so on. Good tankyness vs physical damage classes.
Anyway. If you compare melee SW's tools with SH you might get a clue what I do mean with "full working melee class".

But to be honest. The whole discussion was about the ranged aspect of SW, not the melee one. Melee is cool and compared to ranged over buffed in the damage department. Should ranged SW not be viable because melee is? Probably not, right?

The point is- you can't have both highest melee dmg on order + decent ranged dmg in same spec, and the mdps tools which you listed/ more ranged dmg- if you want buffs if those areas, sw melee dmg will have to be adjusted accordingly.

to be honest this kinda turns me of a bit. back then everyone said you cant buff sw because their M2 is in the way, so the M2 had to go and and ranged sw has not been buffed. then the crit chance buff had to be nerfed because it was in the way of SW buffs. So I was in favor of nerfing it aswell. what we ranged spec players got a year later was a melee tree buff (which is totally fine -might even be overperforming but thats a different story). And now I/we are sitting here still waiting for a ranged spec buff and again something else has to be nerfed before we can allow said buffs. it feels like everytime we are getting closer to finally having ranged sw buffed something else has to be removed first leaving the ranged spec more and more crippled without the following promised buffs. And dont get me wrong i understand this completely given the turbulences the balancing here had. but at one point id like to see what SWs (and shs) should have gotten all along. a ranged buff. Engi got it, magus got it, bw and sorc still shine and Im still sitting on my gimped ranged spec that has not gotten one bit of love in all this time. Its tiresome to have this discussion every year for 3 years always ending up with things I/we didnt ask for and a lot of ranged spec nerfs on top of it. I even had accepted balance discussion threads which were never implemented and it starts to feel like a never ending story of getting thrown under the bus.

edit: sry for the wall, this shouldnt sound as snarky as it does.

[jasonX]

SW really doesn't need any buffs outside of maybe AoE for WB. But SW is just fine for Forts. So, yea. Pretty good class.

totally agree on this.

@ JaysonX: i am not afraid on any warband- preferences and space.
just wanted to point out that SW not needs to get buffed in solokilling st burst dmg against some classes, whats you open post was.
some classes shine in WBs, some shine in SCs/smale scale and some shine in solo/1v1. thats simply the game as it is and will be. maybe you just should pick the class your preferred playstyle fits best.

And SW shines where exactly?

[jasonX]

To add my input to this discussion.

On my chosen, the class that manages to hit me the hardest is melee SW. Not bw, not engi, not wh/slayer.

So as far as "Melee damage is good but a lot of tools are missing to play SW as a "true" melee class.", being hardest hitting melee class atime on order side while also having a decent ranged options- without changing spec- does brings a question what exactly do some sw believe is missing from the class.

Well, I would think that those that picked the class to play it as rdps, not mdps, feels that especially damage is missing. Dps AMs feels like more of a threat than a SW in most cases for instance.

Amen to logic

[peterthepan3]

Ask zeromancer for tips.

That's simply suggesting someone to play like a bitch. Can't believe this guy is even considered as a good player lol... However, with the current situation of ROR I shouldn't have been suprised to begin with maybe..

He's the best Skirmish SW I've seen in the game, and also has a great understanding of Assault.

Who exactly are you again?

[Sulorie]

Well, I would think that those that picked the class to play it as rdps, not mdps, feels that especially damage is missing. Dps AMs feels like more of a threat than a SW in most cases for instance.

Amen to logic

Dps AM has more damage but much less CC. Both make a very nice duo.