[Beginner's Question] All-sufficient and self-reliant?

[chokeanutsman]

Skip the burden of proof and show videos that show that Destro can 1 up Order's 1v1 classes with Destro's 1v1 classes. Much easier that way so we can get this over with asap.

P.S No need to be passive aggressive, I haven't started with insults

Click here to watch on YouTube

WL Kills
1:57
5:24
8.00

Not boasting, but wanted to show that WL is pretty easy food for a Defensive Melee Magus. You do have your hard counters (like IB or WH) but WL is among the easiest to kill.

There we go, an honest discussion. This IS solid proof, but at the same time? The video also proves Magus doesn't burst and people have time to escape once they figure out how this build works and that it has to be tanky to be able to duel. It is relevant if it was a "fight to the death" but amassing solo RR kills against actual high level high geared people? Hell no.

It is still a tanky build (Havoc/Daemonology) that will borderline just stalemate people once people figure out how it works. Escaping a WL and AM most of the time? Not exactly possible, this build is so escapable even though WL is "free food for it" and that's assuming that WL doesn't know how it works (it is SO DAMN stationary you can just run away and let pet do all the damage and neither will kill each other). It doesn't exactly burst that hard to where people can't react. And it takes a looong level to even accomplish this kind of magus build.

If the point of solo roaming is to amass as many renown as possible, defensive magus wouldn't really be the class for that, DPS Shaman would be superior and even then would lose to WL and AM. WL and AM is still superior and is probably worse in 1v1s for the most part. In SCs? Tank Magus can't push people out of point that the enemy controls, and it's damage can be borderline ignorable. WL is hard to ignore, can actually push people out, and people have found ways to sustain now that it's 2019. What is to say that one of the best WLs didn't find a way to be a tanky and still be able to damage at the same time with pounce and reliable pet?

I'm 100% sure order has something similar to this but A LOT worse (Azeyune, kinda).

TL;DR Tank Magus can't chase and can be borderline ignorable and mediocre. Order is potentially still stronger in solo roaming AND more obnoxious in multiple point SCs just because of AM and WL.

P.S BG and WE do count (And sadly not everybody plays these), but SH will face harder consquences vs. WH and Volgograd's IB than that WL suffered vs. the BG and the WE because SH pet is inferior and WL is just more forgiving.

All I am saying is if you want your life to be easy as a "solo player" and win SCs that are annoying in design (such as Thunder Valley, assuming all else is equal rank/gear) just play AM or WL or just play Order for that matter, really (Because Order is still overall, technically better at 1v1s due to Order classes being similar [BG/IB and WE/WH] BUT with SOME Order mirror's being legit better than the other for 1v1s [SH/WL having a better pet, and AM not having to deal with obnoxious burst like WL + reliable pet/SHAMAN].

[Sulorie]

Shaman doesn't die to AM, when you just kite away. Shaman can kill WL, despite having a hard fight, if the WL is good. In most cases, the player with better potions wins.

[chokeanutsman]

Shaman doesn't die to AM, when you just kite away. Shaman can kill WL, despite having a hard fight, if the WL is good. In most cases, the player with better potions wins.

All of these realistically "stalemate builds" that require you to build tanky aren't good enough and doesn't really make destro "similar" to order in 1v1s. You're saying Shaman should just detaunt and runaway and give the point to an AM in an SC such as Thunder Valley because they can't cleanse AM dots?

It takes 1 disrupt to mess up a DPS Shaman, WL stuns shaman and back attacks, gg. You can't parry a WL as Shaman if the WL had half a brain. Also you can punt the WL but sometimes the pet doesn't get punted/knocked down and it takes one good silence and coordinated strike. But if you build tanky, then it's stalemate anyways, whats the point of a staring contest with no clear winner. Too favorable for WL. Gork Sez Stop isn't doing crap vs. a smart WL, this skill is a ghetto Bloodseeker ulti and isn't that great against competent 1v1ners.

Everything else similar, AM and WL has it easier.

[Sulorie]

On a side note, nobody cares about your 1vs1 stories.

[Onemantankwall]

Roll a tank if you want sustain and no i dont mean 2h glass cannon. No wl will ever out live a tank and while ur stalemated with AM and other healers, you wont find them dotting u and running away smiling as you slowly die. Good deftard tank can solo or even 1v3 in some rare scenarios. Tamks do nothing but laugh at WLs while having the most chance to escape a dps heal while shrugging off eberythibg else except maybe broken rampage slayers but all u have to do is kite them never face tank 1 if need proof watch volgo vids its pretty much same for every deftard tank some better built than others

[methority]

I do care about 1v1 stories.
Despite WAR is that sort of party-dependent rock-paper-scissors mmorpg, I 1) do believe there is an universal-kit class that meet my criteria 2) can't rely on being involved into premades and constant groups, because I don't like to build hierarchic relations; but I do like to be kind of friendly stranger.

[DokB]

Just roll WL or DPS AM. It meets pretty much all your criteria.

[chokeanutsman]

I do care about 1v1 stories.
Despite WAR is that sort of party-dependent rock-paper-scissors mmorpg, I 1) do believe there is an universal-kit class that meet my criteria 2) can't rely on being involved into premades and constant groups, because I don't like to build hierarchic relations; but I do like to be kind of friendly stranger.

Just play Order, you won't regret it.

But if you want a challenge in terms of solo roaming, just stick to Destro.

[dansari]

The game isn't balanced, especially around 1v1.

[chokeanutsman]

On a side note, nobody cares about your 1vs1 stories.

Actually this is what would happen in an actually Shaman vs. AM/WL Scenario. This statement of yours (Nobody cares about your 1v1 stories) isn't really the counter argument to "Should Shaman just give the point away in Thunder Valley to an AM because they can't clear hexes with their cleanse"

I appreciate you proving me right that Order is superior in 1v1s though because Shaman can do nothing but "kite away" and give the point to an AM in an SC such as Thunder Valley because they "can't cleanse hexes" and that you can't prove that Shaman can beat AM unless Shaman had god tier RNG with the silence and Bunch o Waagh crits (even though AM could do the same to Shaman except AM can cleanse Shaman DOTS).

And really? Shaman stalemates/can beat WL? Must be hard to Silence > DPS > Knockdown > DPS.