PVE: Tips on tanking Bastion Stairs?

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Jimsey0000
Posts: 30

PVE: Tips on tanking Bastion Stairs?

Post#1 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:53 pm

Could someone give me some tips on tanking on bastion stairs (rr 77 chosen)? seems like i get hit too hard/often. i can't figure out whether higher block/parry and less armor is better, or more armor and less block/parry. After 3 years, i still don't fully understand PVE.

Seems like in your paperdoll when it says "100 percent parry" you don't really have "100 percent parry" because you're still getting hit like 50 percent of the time, so apparently, champs/heroes haver some kind of inherant thing that reduces your block/parry by an unknown amount. I have full vanq gear, mix of 100 armor/20 toughness talismans on it all, then my other setup is redeye boots, cloak, gloves rest vanq that latter setup gives about 5600 armor, the former setup gives about 4400 armor.

I quit one wing at one point and the blorc of the group, who was just in vanq, saying the mobs/heros didn't even effect him, solo tanked the rest of the entire wing. So, i don't know if he was exaggerating, or if it's just a class issue or what. I do know my ruin gear blorc seems to be almost as tanky as my rr 77 chosen sometimes, though that could just be overly subjective observations on my part. Also make note that my BS groups are always junky, healing usually is weak, and the offtank is usually in ruin gear or decimator or some other cringy gear setup, and alot of times the healer even goes down in like 1 or 2 hits.

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Fey
Posts: 370

Re: PVE: Tips on tanking Bastion Stairs?

Post#2 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:42 pm

From what I understand you want crit chance at or below zero, ignore toughness and stack as much avoidance you can. Sounds like your heals are lacking too. A competent zealot with warping the spirit helps a lot. Im amazed how little people use heal over time
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wonshot
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Re: PVE: Tips on tanking Bastion Stairs?

Post#3 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:43 pm

I am by no means a tank expert. But for pve you want to be at 0.00% chance to be critted first of all as a tank. Maybe that is where most of your unexpected damage-intake is coming from?

From there on going sword and board is the next logical step, and boost your block rating up along with parry (helps you mitigate some of the gaurded damage-intake too)

Apart from that, having wounds is a nice way to give your healers more time to catch up if you take big hits. Thoughness might not do alot in pve from how I remember it, but I could be wrong.

A little sidenote, but everyone should be running pve-aggro tactics so noone else but the tanks are taking the big hits in boss encounters, unless they have aggro resets built in and then you just got to be quick with taunt, challenge and building your aggro back up by attacking.
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Manatikik
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Re: PVE: Tips on tanking Bastion Stairs?

Post#4 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:48 pm

Jimsey0000 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:53 pm
Could someone give me some tips on tanking on bastion stairs (rr 77 chosen)? seems like i get hit too hard/often. i can't figure out whether higher block/parry and less armor is better, or more armor and less block/parry. After 3 years, i still don't fully understand PVE.

Seems like in your paperdoll when it says "100 percent parry" you don't really have "100 percent parry" because you're still getting hit like 50 percent of the time, so apparently, champs/heroes haver some kind of inherant thing that reduces your block/parry by an unknown amount. I have full vanq gear, mix of 100 armor/20 toughness talismans on it all, then my other setup is redeye boots, cloak, gloves rest vanq that latter setup gives about 5600 armor, the former setup gives about 4400 armor.

I quit one wing at one point and the blorc of the group, who was just in vanq, saying the mobs/heros didn't even effect him, solo tanked the rest of the entire wing. So, i don't know if he was exaggerating, or if it's just a class issue or what. I do know my ruin gear blorc seems to be almost as tanky as my rr 77 chosen sometimes, though that could just be overly subjective observations on my part. Also make note that my BS groups are always junky, healing usually is weak, and the offtank is usually in ruin gear or decimator or some other cringy gear setup, and alot of times the healer even goes down in like 1 or 2 hits.

Biggest issue is I’m assuming you didn’t dump RR into Futile Strikes to get 0% chance to be crit. If you aren’t at or below 0% that’s your biggest issue. Armor doesn’t matter much after 75% reduction in MOST PvE encounters. Toughness is a useless stat pretty much and really only helps with DoTs. Your HP should be about 11k with that gear level.

For your RR I’d say dump 30 into FS, 20 into block, and 20 into Parry with 7 extra in whatever you wan.
Your tali levels are very low; you want at least +23’s in all your gear once you hit Conq level gear. I’d suggest mainly Wounds talis for PvE with maybe an Initiative tali or two if needed.

For gear the most important part is reduction in being crit and hard avoidance. Full Vanq or Invader is best tanking gear atm and add in Beast Lord cloak for its high wounds value. Jewel wise you want to do a mix of +block/parry jewelry you have, wounds, reduction to be crit, and initiative; this is most open for interpretation but mix and match depending on what you have.

Hope this helps.
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Panodil
Posts: 143

Re: PVE: Tips on tanking Bastion Stairs?

Post#5 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:16 pm

Get 0% to be crit, not less or more.
Full block and parry in renown after you hit 0% to be crit, then just trow rest of the points in wounds.
I know in BE/BB highest hitting boss had 30% armor pen. So max you can mitigate from armor is 75%. so you want to be at 75% after boss armor pen, so 75%+ boss armor pen, in my case 30%, so around 105% damage mitigation from armor.
Bosses in Bastion hit harder so even more armor if you can, but this is just if you got extra gear and extra armor talis, not worth starting to buy armor talis just for Bastion. Should be able to do it with normal pvp gear because nothing in Bastion hit that hard with ok heals.
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Re: PVE: Tips on tanking Bastion Stairs?

Post#6 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:59 pm

To put some things straight.
There is a common misconception regarding both armor and toughness in PVE
Extensive testing was done on a previous post on armor in pve (no time to look for it) and to sum up, results showed the mitigation continued to scale to as far as the tester was able to stack (115% I believe)with no drop off and it did not cap at 75%.
I do believe however that in PVP it does cap at75% so armor is very important (after Anti crit and block/parry)

In regards to toughness,
It mitigates at a flat rate rather than a percentage up to 80% so for the sake of easy math let’s say you have 500 toughness and you were hit for 1000, let’s say (again for ease) your 500 toughness mitigated 500 of that damage leaving you actually being hit for 500. However if you got hit by a boss for 5,000 you would still only mitigate 500 of that damage leaving you being hit for 4,500. It is at this point most people say toughness is useless in PVE but.....

How about adds or regular attacks from bosses while other team members are also being attacked with healers needing to take attention off you.
How about regular small ammounts(1000hp) magical attacks

The big damage attacks are most often magical damage with armor not assisting you.

All of the situations above,toughness is your friend so run at least some:
600-700toughness is good. I choose to run more

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Stophy22
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Re: PVE: Tips on tanking Bastion Stairs?

Post#7 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:55 am

as many others have said, get 0% chance to be crit (roughly 300 initiative and get futile strikes from renown) then drop armor talis in and spec for parry!

Most of the stair is kinda co tank dependant so your other tanker should be using challenge to give you a damage reduction and then make sure you use m2 distracting bellow because it can stack with challenge. (some breathing room). other than that as a chosen make sure your parry buff is up as often as possible and you should handle yourself pretty well. Bosses and PVE tends to crit pretty hard so make sure you have that 0% chnce to be crit and then you should be doing pretty well! I know the boss on the right wing has a stacking armor debuff that can make ur armor hit 0 so its nice to have higher armor vs him or good dps to drop the add he spawns (juggernaut). I've been doing bastion stair pretty religiously since it came out so if you have questions feel free to PM ME on the forum or in game send me a mail @ Kurodon. Take care and happy PVE-ing, shits so underrated haha :)
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chokeanutsman
Posts: 77

Re: PVE: Tips on tanking Bastion Stairs?

Post#8 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:06 am

Toughness is garbage.

Go Avoidance (block/parry renowns and masteries) = Armor (talismans) = Possibly Higher Magic Resistance >= Critical Resistance (Futile Strikes) > Wounds = Toughness

Not getting hit in the first place is important, armor and magic res is actually nice for when you DO get hit. Critical Resistance is great and all but only when you have the armor + magic res and block/parry to back it up, that's why avoidance and defensive stats are actual priority.

Wounds isn't exactly important because you want to be tanky OVER TIME assuming that you have a competent healer and tanks already have high health, though I would say that it doesn't hurt having more once you have Avoidance, Armor/Res, and Crit Res. Personally I prefer Wounds over Toughness, but after you get the 3 priorities up it probably won't matter much. I'd consider stacking Wounds once I have the priorities maxed out.

I guess Wounds is actually okay on DPS and Healers (Cheap investment without losing out too much healing and damage for survivability), but were talking about tanks so lol. But it would help you guard on time if your team mates were tanky as well, this dungeon is not a DPS race or 3k group heal required, basically BS is just,, Healers and Tanks just can't be dying in 2 seconds (specially on Lord Slaurith who random aggros every 25 seconds or so).

With max Block/Parry, you should NEVER be scared to challenge adds off your team mates. Toughness isn't better than 1.) Not getting hit in the first place, 2.) percentage reductions such as ARmor/Resistances, 3.) Not getting crit.

If you can sacrifice Toughness for Menace or an avoidance stat, go for it. I'd sacrifice toughness for Wounds if I was a BO too.

You can have ALL of these btw, it's really not hard. Only way you will die with Max Parry/Block is if you have a really bad healer which is a whole different issue.

Jimsey0000
Posts: 30

Re: PVE: Tips on tanking Bastion Stairs?

Post#9 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:29 am

Nevermind guys, i figured out what it was after another BS run.it's everyone else i'm grouped with most of the time. rather than me (i know that sounds narcissistic but) I even observed it with my cotank today how much more fragile he was, then i got another tank and he took very little damage and we crossguarded, and also it was a healing issue as well. I got it all figured out now. It wasn't my crit chance btw, that had nothing to do with it, you don't need to emphasize that at all hardly outside flawless armor in pve, also Hargrim plainly stated in 2019 that toughness is about the same in pve as it is in pvp.
If anyone is wondering, what worked was max block, max parry, rest regen RR, rest toughness suppression, oppression, mixed defenses, 3 piece redeye, rest vanq, all block/parry jewels, subj shield, excavator sword. only set that could be better than this, is full excevator given how messed up aggro mechanics are in pve (or full invader, full invader from what i observed in other tanks, is immunity to pve basically)
Thx to everyone who replied.

chokeanutsman
Posts: 77

Re: PVE: Tips on tanking Bastion Stairs?

Post#10 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:36 am

Jimsey0000 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:29 am
Nevermind guys, i figured out what it was after another BS run.it's everyone else i'm grouped with most of the time. rather than me (i know that sounds narcissistic but) I even observed it with my cotank today how much more fragile he was, then i got another tank and he took very little damage and we crossguarded, and also it was a healing issue as well. I got it all figured out now. It wasn't my crit chance btw, that had nothing to do with it, you don't need to emphasize that at all hardly outside flawless armor in pve, also Hargrim plainly stated in 2019 that toughness is about the same in pve as it is in pvp.
If anyone is wondering, what worked was max block, max parry, rest regen RR, rest toughness suppression, oppression, mixed defenses, 3 piece redeye, rest vanq, all block/parry jewels, subj shield, excavator sword. only set that could be better than this, is full excevator given how messed up aggro mechanics are in pve (or full invader, full invader from what i observed in other tanks, is immunity to pve basically)
Thx to everyone who replied.
Regen RR my god... I guess the max block/parry really does help if you can actually use bad renowns like the hp regen..

But like that could've been wounds... and it would be better and cheaper and you'd have points elsewhere. W/e works man, I'm glad you like the max parry max block and actually prioritized on that

And yes a party is composed of 6 people, so quality of people do matter (Are they not willing to change to more survivability after having the team wipe because they died in 2 seconds as a healer? Does the tank know what cross guard is? Is the tank scared to challenge mobs or is challenging too slow? Do the healers actually know how to reliably group heal? Etc)

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