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Scenarios fate

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CountTalabecland
Posts: 349

Re: Scenarios fate

Post#11 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:45 pm

2h tanks really should be counted as tanks not dps. A shield doesn’t really do a whole lot in scens other than insure that the def tanks dies last after the group is dead. Better to have 2h dmg/abilities to out damage the other 6 man and maybe tip the scales in bringing down a healer.

2h IB is tanky af, the only difference is not having HTL. But when not in wb, it is an ability of limited use. I would rather an IB in a scen have cave-win and be dropping earthshatter on the enemy rather than channeling HTL.

Same with SM, great avoidance and damage in 2h build. Hell its the only tank that starts the game with a 2h weapon, clearly meant to be a tank with a 2h. Again, would rather have my SM popping WW and WoDS rather than channeling HTL. Especially when you are up against a melee group.

Summary being that shields, though the classic tank gear, do pretty much nothing when fighting in scens. When up against a destro melee group you can rely on parry and ST sorcs can still blow you up when holding a shield anyways. Much better to be offensive and not be spamming HTL. HTL might be better for dest against Order RDPS spam but in most cases you would be better served just running down the squishies.
Last edited by CountTalabecland on Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:20 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Ironbeard
Posts: 6

Re: Scenarios fate

Post#12 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:53 pm

Natherul wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:40 pm
Ironbeard wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:08 pm
Natherul, would you at least consider counting 2h tanks as tanks and not dps? Because the majority ARE tanks. Maybe if they slot focused offense, count them as a dps, but otherwise they are tanks. Its inflating the pool of dps and deflating the pool of tanks, and the niche of 2h tanks IS scenarios, so it seems so very odd to penalize them.
I dont make decisions on my own, but from me thats an absolute no. If you want to be a tank then use the proper weapons for it.
That's pants-on-head backwards though. No 2h tank does actual dps-levels of damage, they just aren't dps at all. They are tanks. And the game was designed with 2h tanks as a thing. Actual competitive players use 2h tanks AS TANKS in six mans all the time. SnB is better for rvr, 2h is better for sc. Literally how the game works in both theory and practice. Why penalize players because they play (effectively, i might add) in a way you dislike for...reasons?

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Rydiak
Posts: 298

Re: Scenarios fate

Post#13 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:06 pm

Queue with a shield on and switch to a 2H when in the SC, I guess. Doesn't make much sense to me either, but its their rules.
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Ironbeard
Posts: 6

Re: Scenarios fate

Post#14 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:16 pm

Rydiak wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:06 pm
Queue with a shield on and switch to a 2H when in the SC, I guess. Doesn't make much sense to me either, but its their rules.
Its a ridiculous rule though. Makes no sense and doesn't reflect how the game is played. Why not just change the rule to reflect in-game reality, i.e. 2h tanks are in fact tanks and should be queued as such?
Last edited by Ironbeard on Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: Scenarios fate

Post#15 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:37 pm

Tanking is not, and has never been, about the weapon you use. As mentioned already, the 2h is the preferred weapon for tanking in smallscale because of 2h-specific utility, higher damage, and not needing to spec balls-to-the-walls deftard SnB when there's fewer people around; similarly, SnB is the preferred weapon for tanking in largescale for a plethora of reasons.

Your game, your rules, etc. but ultimately, this rule results in less 'real DPS' joining the matches, as well as them having to experience longer queue times than is actually necessary.
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Yaliskah
King of Nothing
Posts: 1801

Re: Scenarios fate

Post#16 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:50 pm

peterthepan3 wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:37 pm
Your game, your rules, etc.
Tss tsss, it is not about "rules", ofc convictions (like anyone else) and passion are speaking too, but it is about solutions (sometime disputable i agree, but in the limit of our knowledge/abilities) we are able to bring, testings, conclusions, finding better solutions, being able or not to make them possible, time to make them (which is very different from the player time)... We can not bend and constrain the game as easily as some would like to think.

Ironbeard
Posts: 6

Re: Scenarios fate

Post#17 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:54 pm

Yaliskah wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:50 pm
peterthepan3 wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:37 pm
Your game, your rules, etc.
Tss tsss, it is not about "rules", ofc convictions (like anyone else) and passion are speaking too, but it is about solutions (sometime disputable i agree, but in the limit of our knowledge/abilities) we are able to bring, testings, conclusions, finding better solutions, being able or not to make them possible, time to make them (which is very different from the player time)... We can not bend and constrain the game as easily as some would like to think.
Natherul's opinion on "use proper weapons to tank" is literally an arbitrary rule. Its not supported by in-game mechanics or practice, and in fact the only place it shows up is in the SC queue sorter you guys use. Moreover, its a rule that isn't a solution to any problem; indeed, it manufactures a problem by making SC queues overly long for everyone.

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rmpl
Posts: 766

Re: Scenarios fate

Post#18 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:56 pm

Natherul wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:40 pm
I dont make decisions on my own, but from me thats an absolute no. If you want to be a tank then use the proper weapons for it.
Snb tanks are quite worthless in scenarios though. Tanks are still tanks no matter what weapon you use but the rule of the thumb is snb for forts/orvr and 2h for sc/smallscale, I simply cant understand why is that a bad thing.

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Luth
Posts: 2857

Re: Scenarios fate

Post#19 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:35 pm

Everything wrong regarding the "2H tank is DPS" meme was written here:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30944
and with less math here viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30944&p=351342#p351342
So this was/is either ignored or the continuation of the meme means that balance decisions are based on textures and models.

Ironbeard
Posts: 6

Re: Scenarios fate

Post#20 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:40 pm

Luth wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:35 pm
Everything wrong regarding the "2H tank is DPS" meme was written here:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30944
and with less math here viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30944&p=351342#p351342
So this was/is either ignored or the continuation of the meme means that balance decisions are based on textures and models.
Thanks m8. The math is truly compelling IMO. Justice for scenario queues. Free the tanks!

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