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Another complaint about domination

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Aethilmar
Posts: 192

Another complaint about domination

Post#1 » Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:23 pm

Yep, just hit that level of stupid frustration with the domination mechanic again that it is time for another post.

Mourkain Temple
Gates of Ekrund
Blackfire Basin
Nordenwatch
...and the list goes on

Even if you play these "as intended" and don't try to spawn camp the enemy, there is a good chance if they are outmatched that the match will end early and you will not get the full reward as the victor. This is on top of the existing issues where the game will end early even if you are outmatched but still fighting and going for objectives.

Domination is broken as a mechanic. Domination discourages people from playing SCs. Domination punishes people for playing the scenarios as designed. And domination rewards nobody (except for the perverse feeling of keeping the other side from collecting full emblems).

Even the old system of rewarding points instead of taking time was better. Please revert or disable until you can come up with a better solution.

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adamthelc
Posts: 730

Re: Another complaint about domination

Post#2 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:34 am

I dont think domination is ever going to be a fair system. Saving everyone time for a SC that is one sided seems like a good idea. But there are too many people who get upset when they think something benefits someone else more or punishes them more.

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Ysaran
Posts: 608

Re: Another complaint about domination

Post#3 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:34 am

Is it possible to make differentiate contribution? Like for example if domination is triggered and majority of players are near objective then domination give points and if instead majority of players are near camp then it reduce time (as work now).
In addition I would say that many ppl don't even know how domination work, the SC simply end early and they don't know what they done wrong. Domination mechanics should be written in the loading page of SC

Akalukz
Posts: 634

Re: Another complaint about domination

Post#4 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:54 pm

take away points, exp and renown for kills. Make objective the only thing that matters, shorten to 10 mins, high score wins.
-= Agony =-

anarchypark
Posts: 1455

Re: Another complaint about domination

Post#5 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:03 pm

consider it as reward scaling system.
depend on opponent's skills.

don't you think reward should be minimal for stomping noobs?
or against no heals. or no tanks.

it seems everybody agree on that it's not fun killing weak enemy.
but expect full reward from no fun.

you can still get full reward from close competitions.
SM8, SW7, AM7, WL4, KoBS4, BW3, WP7, WH4, IB4, EG3, SL5
BG7, Sorc6, DoK7, WE7, Cs7, Mg7, Ze6, Mara6, BO4, SH4, Shm5, Chop3
SC summary - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20415
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Aethilmar
Posts: 192

Re: Another complaint about domination

Post#6 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:44 pm

anarchypark wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:03 pm
consider it as reward scaling system.
depend on opponent's skills.

don't you think reward should be minimal for stomping noobs?
or against no heals. or no tanks.

it seems everybody agree on that it's not fun killing weak enemy.
but expect full reward from no fun.

you can still get full reward from close competitions.
This point of view is problematic for a variety of reasons:
1) It doesn't take into account that objective based scenarios are being terminated early solely on kills
2) It doesn't take into account that the sole means of achieving Emblems is SCs and emblem gear already takes longer to acquire than the PvE gear
3) The behavior that is *supposed* to be getting curbed is farming renown/kills and not farming emblems.


By this same logic we should nerf the rewards for PvE instances (and their PvE gear used in PvP) based on how easily the PvE instances are "dominated" by those making the runs.

Sulorie
Posts: 4531

Re: Another complaint about domination

Post#7 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:36 pm

Aethilmar wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:44 pm

By this same logic we should nerf the rewards for PvE instances (and their PvE gear used in PvP) based on how easily the PvE instances are "dominated" by those making the runs.
The more we wipe at boss, the more inf we get for boss kill? :)
Dying is no option.

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adamthelc
Posts: 730

Re: Another complaint about domination

Post#8 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:08 pm

anarchypark wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:03 pm
consider it as reward scaling system.
depend on opponent's skills.

don't you think reward should be minimal for stomping noobs?
or against no heals. or no tanks.

it seems everybody agree on that it's not fun killing weak enemy.
but expect full reward from no fun.

you can still get full reward from close competitions.
Why do you care if people are getting a few more emblems a scenario? It is an unnecessary control that is fun for no one expect maybe someone who just enjoys ruining other peoples day.

People were getting full rewards for a while and it wasnt hurting anyone.

I've tried to be civil, but the domination system is terrible. Let the clock tick down normally and let the people who have no chance sit in there spawn for the full duration while the better side does their full objective routine.

Penalizing people for being better than the other side in a PvP heavy game is one of the most backwards ass things I have ever heard of.

I get it though. Lots of people claim to like PvP, but arent very good and cant handle losing. So if you dont cater to those people they start to leave. Those kind of moves are better for the population, but make the game worse.

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wargrimnir
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Re: Another complaint about domination

Post#9 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:26 pm

Pugstomping bad.

I can make it bigger if you want, but seeing as that is what gets punished the most, that's kind of the point we were going for. The previous domination mechanic had been in the game for years, it didn't work, no one really cared. This implementation seems to have rustled some jimmies, so we're taking that feedback that it's doing something at least.

If this implementation is hitting situations that it shouldn't be, (i.e. not pugstomping/noobfarming), then we would be happy to make adjustments to make sure good fights go on as long as they need to. Alternatively, we know there's a handful of situations that if you REALLY try to do so, you can cheese the current mechanic. If we get reports on that, we can similarly tighten things up as needed.

Pugstomping bad.

You're not penalized when domination goes off. We're not taking anything away from you. We're not reducing your renown. We're not destroying currency from your bags. The match simply ends faster if you're pugstomping, because that is not a situation that anyone WANTS to be in (allegedly).

What we ARE doing is providing some buffs to the losers to snap out of it, and if they do manage to get back into a competitive state, the domination timer and buffs will back off.

In both instances whether you're the one kicking ass or sucking your thumb and cowering, no one wants to deal with that mess any longer than they have to, nor do we need to give you any more rewards than you've earned for the time spent. It ends faster, you get your earned rewards faster, and you can move on to the next scenario pop (which hopefully has some better competition for you).

Pugstomping bad.

Player behavior however will eventually adjust to this scary new mechanic where the unstoppable premade group is not rewarded for anything more than showing up to the fight. If there's no fight, then take your token for winning and enjoy. Effort in, effort out.

Player behavior will also dictate how these fights are engaged. If a realm is getting stomped, it's not solely on the pugs to git gud and bootstrap themselves into awesomeness. This is a small community, fight a good fight that everyone has a chance at enjoying. Kills matter. Wins matter. Points matter. You can do all of these things without completely embarrassing the only competition you have. It's not like you're suddenly going to get an influx of players that want to be beaten 0-500 over the course of 15 minutes as half their team AFK's in the spawn if we revert domination right?

Pugstomping is bad.

At least, that's what we've been told by new players in our community, and veteran elite 6v6 key players alike. If you have a better idea to solve the same problem, feel free to let it rip. If you want to complain about the specific thing that we're intending to do, I'm not sure how else to illustrate to you that it is very much intended.
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zgolec
Suspended
Posts: 560

Re: Another complaint about domination

Post#10 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:47 pm

Tala Dam sc... 32kills vs 2. Had to run full sc with 0 resistance cause no domination kicked in...

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