Best Order/Destro Tank for WB Play

[carlos]

Anything but IB/BG. All others are definitely wanted

This is hilarious when you actually understand IB is a staple in order warbands by providing high defense and offense for Slayers especially and incredible aoe cc through Ancestor's Fury, Powered Etchings, Oathbound, and Earthshatter, to name a few. IBs are also the tank who can most easily kite and move around via Avalanche. lol

Silly me I'm just used to having the mirror class that provides nothing near as useful for warband play. Must be nice!

"Detangler - 40 DoK armor talisman farmer
Deetangler - 40/6x Chosen tankbot
Deeetangler - 40/6x Zealot healbot"

You missed something then...

[Aurandilaz]

4 chosen + 4 bork for destro
4 kotb + 4 Sm for order
BG + IB are kinda non-optimal picks, as in they need to "warm up" before fight to gain mechanic points, or the utility they bring does not compare to the other utility options.
Kotb/chosen auras are kinda baseline which each party needs, and then WW/Borkfasta buff is also very much wanted, with bork also providing corp debuff.
Tanky BG spec is maybe the worst possible warband spec in the game, which is why you probably find majority of BGs running 2hander - which in turn would make them the 1st "tank" to melt in a proper aoe bomb vs aoe bomb fight.
IB, while has some ok utility, really fails to reach high enough with their stuntie feets - it's passable, but again needs a warm up to build grudges, and your party wishes it had both kotb auras and Sm WW, not a st buffing/debuffing angry short person.

[Lokiusus]

I'm consistently convinced that people who defend 2h BG's as worthwhile in a WB have never played one. It can do general tank stuff (guard, punt, taunt, etc) but has problems with its usefulness overall - in my opinion.

1. You have no AOE CC options besides a tank standard root until RR70+, your mirror has tons. Also, IB gets survive AND offensive abilities standard, while you have to chose between survive and 2h utility.

2. Your best ability is a 10% crit debuff on AOE (which in a game where everyone stacks armor, ini, and crit reduction seems nearly irrelevant) and has a spin up time where you need to generate hate - meaning that you regularly cant pop it at the beginning of a fight... when it's most useful.

3. Your "best in game" aoe wounds debuff requires a tactic AND you to crit to apply. But you can really only think about critting regularly when you activate your crit chance buff and use Crimson Death, leading to a chicken and egg problem where everyone is probably dead by the time you start landing wounds debuffs.

4. KOTBS can do the same exact thing as your CD + wounds debuff, except they need one tactic instead of two, don't have to worry about hate, *and don't need to crit to apply*.

5. Most of your best debuffs (which are quite good) are tied to high hate, which takes more time to generate than most WB bomb fights last. And/or, if you're getti g hit a lot to generate more hate, you're a 2h tank with limited survive.

These are problems I see with BG *in a WB*. In 1-6 man play, or for general roaming and ganking the class really shines as a debuff machine. But if I was making a meta WB on Destro, you're damn sure I'd be bringing exclusively bork and chosen.

[mubbl]

I'm consistently convinced that people who defend 2h BG's as worthwhile in a WB have never played one. It can do general tank stuff (guard, punt, taunt, etc) but has problems with its usefulness overall - in my opinion.

1. You have no AOE CC options besides a tank standard root until RR70+, your mirror has tons. Also, IB gets survive AND offensive abilities standard, while you have to chose between survive and 2h utility.

2. Your best ability is a 10% crit debuff on AOE (which in a game where everyone stacks armor, ini, and crit reduction seems nearly irrelevant) and has a spin up time where you need to generate hate - meaning that you regularly cant pop it at the beginning of a fight... when it's most useful.

3. Your "best in game" aoe wounds debuff requires a tactic AND you to crit to apply. But you can really only think about critting regularly when you activate your crit chance buff and use Crimson Death, leading to a chicken and egg problem where everyone is probably dead by the time you start landing wounds debuffs.

4. KOTBS can do the same exact thing as your CD + wounds debuff, except they need one tactic instead of two, don't have to worry about hate, *and don't need to crit to apply*.

5. Most of your best debuffs (which are quite good) are tied to high hate, which takes more time to generate than most WB bomb fights last. And/or, if you're getti g hit a lot to generate more hate, you're a 2h tank with limited survive.

These are problems I see with BG *in a WB*. In 1-6 man play, or for general roaming and ganking the class really shines as a debuff machine. But if I was making a meta WB on Destro, you're damn sure I'd be bringing exclusively bork and chosen.

hahaha, bg is by far not that bad, bgs have planty of unique stuff that is usefull
but compared to order classes, its defenetly not easy mode game style

[Detangler]

Weird, seems I'm not the only one that sees IB/BG as sub optimal tanks in warband play...

[Glorian]

Weird, seems I'm not the only one that sees IB/BG as sub optimal tanks in warband play...

Both shine in 6men Actions but on 24vs24 they are simply sub optimal. And IBs are only in the WB if the leader cant get hold of enough Kotbs and SMs.

Well onthe Dwarf Warband we only take IBs but that is our roleplay thing. Especially that a lot of IB buffs don't stack with potions or other buffs as this is RoR and not AoR where some IB Buffs back in the day stacked and so could make a WB super hard.

For Example "Oath of Vengeance" tactic and using Vengefull strike to increase AoE like the Toughness +75 of 20 feet nearby players.
Ofc any Order Warband Leader would take a Kotbs simply activates the aura: "Stand Strong!". Buffs in 30 feet +120 Toughness, and debuff destro players at the same time.

[Parallell86]

Anything but IB/BG. All others are definitely wanted

This is hilarious when you actually understand IB is a staple in order warbands by providing high defense and offense for Slayers especially and incredible aoe cc through Ancestor's Fury, Powered Etchings, Oathbound, and Earthshatter, to name a few. IBs are also the tank who can most easily kite and move around via Avalanche. lol

The IB is not that useful. And kiting in warband? Seriously dude, thats 6 man bullshit.

Plus, Earthshatter is broken, it doesnt apply snare as it should, sometimes, sometimes not. Not worth using since way back.
The IB is easily replaced with a SM or Knight who can contribute so much more with so much less effort.

Same reason why BGs are not the number one on destro realm, the mechanics. ST buffing a squishie as f*** m.dps who is not the priority choice in a warband either, you got yourself two lesser valuable class in the warband. I take a BW or a WL and a Knight over those two. Like Glorian said, the knight activates 3 auras and use HTL and contribute alot more. While the IB is buffing and doing other stuff, he is not using HTL.

[normanis]

in wb 2h bg > 2h ib.
i asked about ib in order premade wb and ppl said no to me. i whanted to proove that ib is good pair with any dps/heal byt i failed. ancestors fury + 10 crit does its work also fro +10crit heal? why cant ib/bg have something what premade wbs need? like increase grp armor/tougness or increase grp iniative by 70? or aoe heal debuff ( order kobs have outgoing heal debuff while chosen have incoming also bg have all heal debuff same as zealot/dok).

[normanis]

ib have 1 tactic what increase grp tough on condition. byt mostly ib run armor/tough block tactic + 1

[rocc]

If you play chaos don't take BG.

Very difficult to play et personaly i find that it brings little to a WB compared to the BO and chosen.

Becomes interesting to play with hate to the maximum but long to up and you can die before.

The goal of ROR is the kill and with shield forget the kill.

I play Black Guard with shield and i guard. It's my priority character and love it.
Interesting to play in duo or trio. You can surprise.
A BG forces you to think about how you play, really a good challenge.

After any tank, if you guard we'll like you.