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Is 275 init still needed to be safe? And odes negative crit currently works?

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:10 pm
by Zxul
What the topic says- do you still need 275 init to be safe with the usual sw ets debuffs, and does pushing crit into negative still works (as in, you got -5% to be crit, attacker has 5% to crit, total result 0% to crit)?

Re: Is 275 init still needed to be safe? And odes negative crit currently works?

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:25 am
by Ysaran
Zxul wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:10 pm
does pushing crit into negative still works (as in, you got -5% to be crit, attacker has 5% to crit, total result 0% to crit)?
Yes.

About the initiative as far as I remember your base chances to be critted by a r40 enemy are

3500/(your_ini+35)%.

I may be wrong, so as soon as I have some spare time I will search the forum for the source and I will edit this post.

Source:
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=32251&start=120

Re: Is 275 init still needed to be safe? And odes negative crit currently works?

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:51 am
by nat3s
had no idea negative crit was a thing, good to know. My def magus is setup to be bang on 0% chance to be crit, may have to play around with full oppressor for its insane crit reduction.

Re: Is 275 init still needed to be safe? And odes negative crit currently works?

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:55 am
by Kalell
Unless they recently changed it, it is still possible to go into negative crit and negate the attackers crit chance.
Ysaran already gave you the formula, but a picture might be more helpful:
Image

Re: Is 275 init still needed to be safe? And odes negative crit currently works?

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:21 pm
by Ysaran
really nice picture! it's really helpful! anyway i would like to do some math, let's see an example:
if you have 275 ini then your base chance to be critted are 11% so if your ini is debuffed by 120 your base chances to be critted will become 18%.
if you want to have negative chances to be critted even after a 120 ini debuf you need to have 315 ini.

Re: Is 275 init still needed to be safe? And odes negative crit currently works?

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:03 pm
by Manatikik
Ysaran wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:21 pm
really nice picture! it's really helpful! anyway i would like to do some math, let's see an example:
if you have 275 ini then your base chance to be critted are 11% so if your ini is debuffed by 120 your base chances to be critted will become 18%.
if you want to have negative chances to be critted even after a 120 ini debuf you need to have 315 ini.
Biggest issue with this is you will always have a Zealot with you to give you +80 so even with a Conq proc or SM full debuff at 120 you still are only at -40 net. If you run with 2-3 into FS (which you always should) then you need considerably lower base initiative.

The main reason destro needed such high base Ini was because of SW ini debuff stacking - which they removed over a year ago. There isn’t a need to get it crazy high like it was in the past and you can get closer to Order levels (but still have to be higher due to easier crit stacking on Order than Des).

Re: Is 275 init still needed to be safe? And odes negative crit currently works?

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:29 pm
by Ysaran
Manatikik wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:03 pm
Ysaran wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:21 pm
really nice picture! it's really helpful! anyway i would like to do some math, let's see an example:
if you have 275 ini then your base chance to be critted are 11% so if your ini is debuffed by 120 your base chances to be critted will become 18%.
if you want to have negative chances to be critted even after a 120 ini debuf you need to have 315 ini.
Biggest issue with this is you will always have a Zealot with you to give you +80 so even with a Conq proc or SM full debuff at 120 you still are only at -40 net. If you run with 2-3 into FS (which you always should) then you need considerably lower base initiative.

The main reason destro needed such high base Ini was because of SW ini debuff stacking - which they removed over a year ago. There isn’t a need to get it crazy high like it was in the past and you can get closer to Order levels (but still have to be higher due to easier crit stacking on Order than Des).
Ah yes, I'm supposing you are using 3 FS. Without them and with 315 ini your base chances to be critted are 10% and after SW's are 15%

Re: Is 275 init still needed to be safe? And odes negative crit currently works?

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:57 pm
by Zxul
Thx all for replying.