Lore question - Why Order of the Blazing Sun?

Let's talk about... everything else

Moderators: Developer, Management, Web Developer

Posts: 1

Lore question - Why Order of the Blazing Sun?

Post#1 » Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:27 pm

Can anyone harken back to the origins of our fine game and tell me why the development team chose Knights of the Blazing Sun as the fourth character type for the Empire?

The Empire pits itself against Chaos in the game as it's main rival. The Order of the Blazing Sun follow the goddess Myrmidia. They have conflicts and ties to Araby and Estalia. Their affinity versus Chaos seems dubious.

I understand not chosing the Order of the White Wolf, even though that would have been the finest choice, due to there being no Middenheim, but why not choose the Reiksguard, then? Sigmar is much more present in this game, as is Altdorf and Karl Franz. KoTBS doesn't make a lot of sense to me.


User avatar
Posts: 3769

Re: Lore question - Why Order of the Blazing Sun?

Post#2 » Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:52 pm

Just becuase the KOTBS order is in the sounthlands of the empire dosnt mean that they dont have a cause to fight chaos

Its like saying Kislev dosnt have a reason to fight nagash becuase he's all the way down in nehekara/deep in the southlands etc

Much like Nagash, Chaos is a threat to everyone and thus every knightly order has a reason to come at the emoires time of need to fight the greatest threat in the warhammer world

User avatar
Posts: 7

Re: Lore question - Why Order of the Blazing Sun?

Post#3 » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:16 pm

I suspect it has to do with their rather ostentatious appearances and tendency for Myrmian iconagraphy.

Reiksguard would have made the most sense. However Im guessing they wanted to differentiate between player knights and the plethora of order NPCs.

If this game had survived into modern times I suspect the knightly orders would have been a thing, like a sub class system.

I am not a fan of the blazing sun personally, and chose as much generic empire end game appearance as I could, like the mercenaries chest piece with its crowned skull, the beastlords shoulders for their lack of suns and lion spaulders, conqs belt for its skulls and laurels and the Sallet with the Reiks Eagle on it instead of the giant sun, That and Nuln colors of black and red

Kobs is kind of an obscure if wide spread order and I agree it was an odd choice.

Posts: 35

Re: Lore question - Why Order of the Blazing Sun?

Post#4 » Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:09 pm

It's not the first time this has been asked and I agree that it's not the obvious choice.
Imo, this should be approached from two angles -

1. Mechanics

There are 3 class specific gimmicks to be distributed between 3 order tanks and 3 destro tanks.
-Secondary resource that is gained in combat and when your buddy gets hit, strengthens some abilities and consumed by others: most obvious choice is the dwarf tank, mechanic named Grudges/Oath Friend. BlackGuard for destro version, focus on gaining resource when hitting instead of being hit, named Hatred.

-Stances, some abilities available in stance 0, others only in 1 or 2, using respective abilities advances stance to 1, 2 or 0. For order side this could probably go for either the High Elf or Empire tank. It has been suggested by some that Swordmaster and White Lion could have exchanged archetypes. In that case the grudge mechanic could fit the tank White Lion too, named Fury or similar, since they are specifically bodyguards in fluff.

-Auras, some buff nearby allies, others debuff nearby enemies. Multiple can be active at once but this requires some focus and effort (in theory).

Ok, so let's assume that the stance mechanic was given to the Empire tank, let's say the Reiksguard. He is a disciplined soldier and utilizes methodical battle maneuvers, so it's not a big leap of logic. The remaining mechanic, auras, would then go to the high elf tank, so basically Swordmaster. This would not be a bad choice either, especially since the initial design was that Order auras focus on buffing and Destro on debuffing.

However, in the end Mythic decided on distributing the mechanics as follows: Grudges dwarf/dark elf, Stances high elf/greenskin, Auras empire/chaos.

So we have to have an empire tank with some kind of auras, let's look at the possibilities.

2. Fluff

Knights would be the logical choice here. Greatswords might work too, especially since players cannot fight while mounted, but they are probably more like melee DPS in function, and have a very emblematic 2h weapon right in their name (you might say this about swordmasters too... :) )
Ok, so let's look at the main Knightly Orders.

White Wolf
These guys look very unusual for Empire characters, bearing more than a passing resemblance to northmen. They wear wolf pelts and use warhammers instead of lances, no shields and no helmets. They would probably be more concerned with rushing to glorious battle than buffing other characters with auras...

These are more traditonal knights, but there is no obvious affinity for some kind of aura mechanic, again.

Blazing Sun
Notably having Myrmidia as their patron, who is basically the Warhammer version of Athena/Minerva. A templar order fighting in the name of the goddess of warfare and wisdom is a good candidate for an aura mechanic - just call them "Battle Commands" or something. Armor-wise, they have ornate plate armor with fire and sun motifs and impressively feathered helmets. This is a good starting point for creating unique, recognizable armor that still supports the usual motifs of the greater Empire army (skulls, skulls, skulls). In addition, this order is known to wreathe their weapons in fire during combat... this will neatly extend to the many spell-like abilities tanks have in WAR, like the aoe root and damage shield. For a purely martial, non-magical character, abilities like these are a bit harder of a sell. Since the Empire tank has to be the mirror of the Chaos tank, entirely avoiding spell-like abilities would be hard.

Fluff-wise, the Reiksguard would be the simplest. They are already stated to be the Emperor's personal army, which would go easily with the tendency for every player character in WAR belonging to an elite order answering only to the leader of its respective faction, this probably being done to explain why players can just go and do what they want, instead of being posted to stand around in a war camp. Additionally the Reiksguard is said to be the most elite fighting force in the Empire and are few in number, more stuff that fits a player class well.
As for the aura mechanic, it's not a stretch. I think the battle command stuff would fit the Reiksguard too. As for spell-like abilities that mirror the Chosen's, this would be hard. I don't think the Reiksguard is a templar order, so "Sigmar's Root" and "Sigmar's Damage Shield" might be awkward. Also, I don't think the Reiksguard has specific motifs for their armor and weapons. The usual icons of the Empire (skulls), but it would probably be in danger of looking generic, when you consider there are tons of different armor pieces that must be made for each class. In the collector's edition picture book, they greatly emphasized that nothing must be generic-looking in WAR. So if you have a Reiksguard, look at him, and are asked what order does he belong to, it would not be a stretch to answer either Panther, Blazing Sun or Reiksguard, or even some lesser local order... in short, out of the two most logical candidates, the KOTBS has a much more distinct look.

So overall, given the restriction that the empire tank must have auras, there are two obvious choices, Reiksguard and Blazing Sun. I believe the KOTBS took this one because their armor looks more distinct, yet Empire-like, and it's easier to give them spell-like abilities. This despite Reiksguard being a more logical lore-wise choice for this game, what with the empire being greatly concerned with the defense of Reikland, and Talabheim not even being featured.

User avatar
Posts: 7

Re: Lore question - Why Order of the Blazing Sun?

Post#5 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:46 am

This ^
Amazing post Zatoh and summed everything up perfectly I think.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Daynar, Machiara and 42 guests