Page 2 of 2

Re: Let them win zone so we can defend Fort!

Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:54 am
by Aethilmar
Sarnai wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:34 am
Linking zone rewards with invader drops will always cause people to not defend whatever zone comes before it. If pre-fort zones become 4 meds, 'let them win CW so we can defend fort' becomes 'let them win Praag so we can defend CW' and so on and so on. It's in the average person's nature to take the path of least resistance.

Make invader medals random oRVR drops from killing high RR characters, and perhaps in fort gold bags (just medals, not full set pieces.) You can't game the RNG, and if it's between suffering the wrath of the RNGods or suffering the anti-competitive behavior of gear farmers, personally I'd take the former.

Just my two cents. Nobody's system is going to make everyone happy.
^ This.

Devs created the incentives (and issue). Only they can fix it.

Re: Let them win zone so we can defend Fort!

Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:27 am
by anarchypark
Sarnai wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:34 am
Linking zone rewards with invader drops will always cause people to not defend whatever zone comes before it. If pre-fort zones become 4 meds, 'let them win CW so we can defend fort' becomes 'let them win Praag so we can defend CW' and so on and so on. It's in the average person's nature to take the path of least resistance.

Make invader medals random oRVR drops from killing high RR characters, and perhaps in fort gold bags (just medals, not full set pieces.) You can't game the RNG, and if it's between suffering the wrath of the RNGods or suffering the anti-competitive behavior of gear farmers, personally I'd take the former.

Just my two cents. Nobody's system is going to make everyone happy.

and it'll be 'don't push, let them come to funnel farm' on every funnel defence.

Re: Let them win zone so we can defend Fort!

Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:17 pm
by zgolec
Haskr wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:07 pm
zgolec wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:46 pm
Make last zone - if defended - give inv meds. No bags just meds and it will be worth a shot to even try def...
You get 1 Invader medallion for succesfully defending the last zone as of now I believe.
Which comparing to 4 + bag from fort def is laughable. So thats why no one bother to def last zone.

Re: Let them win zone so we can defend Fort!

Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:15 pm
by drmordread
As said, the game mechanics reward the zerg. The minute there is an ounce of difficulty in taking a zone, whichever realm atm is zerging, will cry and cry and cry.

My opinion is same as it has always been. Want to lock a zone?
- Hold all 4 bo.
- If defending realm takes a BO, it locks for 10 minutes, making it untakeable.

Want to see all out knockdown biting and scratching fights? Implement that system!!!

Re: Let them win zone so we can defend Fort!

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:01 pm
by Ototo
drmordread wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:15 pm
As said, the game mechanics reward the zerg. The minute there is an ounce of difficulty in taking a zone, whichever realm atm is zerging, will cry and cry and cry.

My opinion is same as it has always been. Want to lock a zone?
- Hold all 4 bo.
- If defending realm takes a BO, it locks for 10 minutes, making it untakeable.

Want to see all out knockdown biting and scratching fights? Implement that system!!!
It was nearly like that in live, in the time that scenarios and PQs counted for zone locks too. Honestly, I have a love/hate relationship with that time. Locking a zone was a near paramount enterprise, but i feel that was mostly due to the side PvE/sce needs. Fights were indeed brutal, and servers were realm-locked, so you have to fight or log out. There was no 3rd chance to join the zerg.

Re: Let them win zone so we can defend Fort!

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:35 pm
by Lithenir
Ototo wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:01 pm
drmordread wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:15 pm
As said, the game mechanics reward the zerg. The minute there is an ounce of difficulty in taking a zone, whichever realm atm is zerging, will cry and cry and cry.

My opinion is same as it has always been. Want to lock a zone?
- Hold all 4 bo.
- If defending realm takes a BO, it locks for 10 minutes, making it untakeable.

Want to see all out knockdown biting and scratching fights? Implement that system!!!
It was nearly like that in live, in the time that scenarios and PQs counted for zone locks too. Honestly, I have a love/hate relationship with that time. Locking a zone was a near paramount enterprise, but i feel that was mostly due to the side PvE/sce needs. Fights were indeed brutal, and servers were realm-locked, so you have to fight or log out. There was no 3rd chance to join the zerg.
But on live it took you 2 hours for keeps and 30 minutes for BOs. Huge difference.

I remember the last night before the RvR changing patch. In the middle of the night we sneaked inside a keep in dw. Destro was just waiting for the lock. We went through PvE to the nearest keep, just 3 DPS. 3 attackers didn't trigger the alarm. We killed the keep lord and celebrated the system. Always being the underpopulated faction makes you imaginative.

But I think everyone had a love/hate relationship with the long timer. But a 10 minute timer would be very welcomed to slow down and maybe de-zerg the RvR

Re: Let them win zone so we can defend Fort!

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:33 pm
by CountTalabecland
Just give people a 2nd slower route to earn Invader so that there isnt only one incentive in RvR to zerg and max as many fort runs as you can in the hopes of getting geared.

Re: Let them win zone so we can defend Fort!

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:26 pm
by drmordread
Ototo wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:01 pm
drmordread wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:15 pm
As said, the game mechanics reward the zerg. The minute there is an ounce of difficulty in taking a zone, whichever realm atm is zerging, will cry and cry and cry.

My opinion is same as it has always been. Want to lock a zone?
- Hold all 4 bo.
- If defending realm takes a BO, it locks for 10 minutes, making it untakeable.

Want to see all out knockdown biting and scratching fights? Implement that system!!!
It was nearly like that in live, in the time that scenarios and PQs counted for zone locks too. Honestly, I have a love/hate relationship with that time. Locking a zone was a near paramount enterprise, but i feel that was mostly due to the side PvE/sce needs. Fights were indeed brutal, and servers were realm-locked, so you have to fight or log out. There was no 3rd chance to join the zerg.
Well yes, the live version was TOO bulky. Had to do PvE, and SC's, and the tier 2 and tier 3 zones counted as well. But we don't need all of that. T2 and T3 are now all melded into t4, and no one wants to include PvE and SC victory points.

But bring back the 10 min lock out timer on BO's and the zerg is stopped. Hell, I would even go back to leading WB's (even pug ones) and even lead realm wide push or Defense, as I used to on live.

ANDDDDD .... stopping the zerg will go A LONG WAY to balancing out the realms. Once people realize that there is no easy way, they will play the realm they like, and not the zerg realm. Sure, we may lose about a hundred to two hundred players, but who cares? Hell, may evn bring back some old ones who left because the server is nothing BUT zerg.

Re: Let them win zone so we can defend Fort!

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:05 am
by madrocks
Sarnai wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:34 am
Linking zone rewards with invader drops will always cause people to not defend whatever zone comes before it. If pre-fort zones become 4 meds, 'let them win CW so we can defend fort' becomes 'let them win Praag so we can defend CW' and so on and so on. It's in the average person's nature to take the path of least resistance.

Make invader medals random oRVR drops from killing high RR characters, and perhaps in fort gold bags (just medals, not full set pieces.) You can't game the RNG, and if it's between suffering the wrath of the RNGods or suffering the anti-competitive behavior of gear farmers, personally I'd take the former.

Just my two cents. Nobody's system is going to make everyone happy.
Agreed.