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Morale / AP Drain / Pumps

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TiberiusD
Posts: 263

Morale / AP Drain / Pumps

Post#1 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:23 am

Hello!

Can someone post here a full list of classes which can Morale Pump / Drain and AP Drain? Both ST and AoE

Here is an example

<Class name> - <Morale / AP> <Pump / Drain> <ST/Aoe>

Archmage - Morale Pump ST
Tibdum - Main Army Logistic Supplier
Gillumir - Main Battle Tank
Gujjy - Main Siege Weapon Operative
Whallman - Main Combat Medic

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donkawonka
Posts: 19

Re: Morale / AP Drain / Pumps

Post#2 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:20 am

https://wiki.returnofreckoning.com/inde ... ale_Drains

The list is missing the WE/WH 13pt left tree ones. They are both a pump and drain.

Just look thru the career builder

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Glorian
Posts: 4446

Re: Morale / AP Drain / Pumps

Post#3 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:56 am

donkawonka wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:20 am
https://wiki.returnofreckoning.com/inde ... ale_Drains

The list is missing the WE/WH 13pt left tree ones. They are both a pump and drain.

Just look thru the career builder
Correct, I made the list some time ago.

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wonshot
Posts: 486

Re: Morale / AP Drain / Pumps

Post#4 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:47 am

AP-group pumps: (didnt include self ap pumps)

Order:
Engineer: 20ap to everyone in the warband. Requirement: masterytacticslot Tacticslot + near turret.
Runepriest: 50ap 20%chance on any abilityuseage for party. Requirement: classmechanic rune + mastery ability.
Warriorpriest: 25% on heal to give friendly targets, excluding yourself, 50ap on heal. Requirement mastery tacticslot.
Knight: 20ap every 5sec to the party. and draining 20ap within 30feet every 5sec (doesnt stack with other auras) Requirement: Classmechanic Aura.
SW: ap regen 20% for 15sec to the party. Requirements 60sec cooldown class group-buff.
Slayer: 25%fewer AP cost for 20sec to partymembers. Requirement 60sec class group-buff.
IB: When the IB is hit pump 25ap singletarget to his Oatfriend for 10sec, 20sec cooldown. Requirement Standard ability
IB: On crit pump 25ap to all groupmembers with 3sec internal cooldown. Requirement Mastery tacticslot

Destro:
Magus: 20ap to everyone in the warband. Requirement: Masterytacticslot + near turret.
Zealot: 50ap 20%chance on any abilityuseage or the partymembers. Requirement: Classmechanic rune + mastery ability
DoK: 25% chance on heal to give friendly targets, excluding yourself, 50ap on heal. Requirement mastery tacticslot.
Chosen: 20ap every 5sec to the party. and draining 20ap within 30feet every 5sec (doesnt stack with other auras) Requirement: Classmechanic Aura.
Shammy: 40ap singletarget on a 1sec heal+hot ability. Requirements mastery tactic slot.
BG: 5/10/15 ap to partymembers on BG parry for the next 4attacks on you within 10sec. Requirement Mastery ability + hatescaling

AP Drains:

Order:
AM: 180ap drain Singletarget over 9sec. Standard ability.
AM 92ap drained within 20feet of your target AoE over 9sec. Requirement Tacticslot.
WH: 20Ap steal on bulletbuff. ST/AoE

Destro:
Shammy: 180 ap drain Singletarget over 9sec. Standard ability.
Mara: 50%slower ap regain for 10sec Singletarget 20sec CD. Requirement Savegery stance + Mastery ability.
Mara: Drain 40AP on Crit over 3sec. Requirement Mastery Tacticslot + stance
BG: 20ap drain on Singletarget for 10sec per ability they use. Requirement Mastery ability 20Hatered on use.
WE: 20Ap steal on 25%chance on Kiss.
BO: 50ap drain over 5sec. 10sec cooldown. Requirement Masterpoint ability, stancedance.
Morale pumps:

Order:
BW: 200morale selfpump tactic on crit 3sec internal CD.
WH: M2 double Morale gain for 15sec to party.
WH: Dragongun finisher move 10sec cooldown 125Grouppump+AoE drain scaling in width with Combopoints 30/35/40/43/48 feet
AM: 250morale on a 2sec Singletarget heal, can be used on anytarget in/outside of group/warband. Requirement: masterytacticslot.

Destro:
Sorc: 200morale selfpump tactic on 3sec internal CD.
Shammy: 150 Group-pump when partymembers succesfully attack while 'Ere We Go! groupbuff is active, 10sec cooldown on the ability. Requirement: Mastery tacticslot.
WE: M2 double Morale gain for 15sec to party.
WE: On Your Knees! finisher move 10sec cooldown 125Grouppump+AoE drain scaling in width with Combopoints 30/35/40/43/48 feet
BO: On Block 4% morale selfpump on 3sec internal cooldown (?) Requirement: tacticslot
Chosen: On Block 200Morale selfpump on 3sec internal cooldown (?) Requirements: tacticslot.
SH: 100morale selfpump on a 25%chance to proc with 3sec internal cooldown, whenever partymembers succesfully land an attack within 100feet. Requirements: tacticslot.
Zealot: 200morale selfpump on critheals. Requirement: tactic slot.

Morale drains:

Order:
BW: Burning head M4 600morale drain 20feet. Requirements Mastery M4
Knight: Solarflare M4 Drains ALL morale in 30feet. (ONLY ability with the only 9target aoecap apart from slayer/choppa tactic) Requirement: Mastery M4
WH: Dragongun finisher move 10sec cooldown 125Grouppump+AoE drain scaling in width with Combopoints 30/35/40/43/48 feet
SM: 28morale over 12sec. Aoe M4 (never seeing use) Requirement: Mastery M4.
WH: 25%chance 225 morale drain. Requirement: BACKATTACK. Mastery tacticslot.

Destro:
Mara: 25%chance to drain 225morale. Requirement: Monstro stance. Mastery tacticslot.
Mara: Prevent all morale gain for 5sec. 40feet aoe cone 10sec cooldown. Requirement: Mastery ability + Brutality Stance
WE: On Your Knees! finisher move 10sec cooldown 125Grouppump+AoE drain scaling in width with Combopoints 30/35/40/43/48 feet
BO: Yer Nothin M4. Targets lose 30sec of Morale over 12seconds 30feet aoe. Requirement Mastery M4.
BO: Singletarget 6% morale drain. Requirement: Tacticslot. Spamable ability.


I left some of the worst meme morale drains out as they are just not worth mentioning, the full outdated list is over at: https://wiki.returnofreckoning.com/inde ... ale_Drains
Last edited by wonshot on Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:20 am, edited 5 times in total.
Bombling BW RR 87 [Thundercats]
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375.000 oRvR kills

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Glorian
Posts: 4446

Re: Morale / AP Drain / Pumps

Post#5 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:52 am

Kotbs got this Tactic: Bellow Commands:
Gives 5AP for every active Aura every second. So should be +15AP every second.

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wonshot
Posts: 486

Re: Morale / AP Drain / Pumps

Post#6 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:57 am

When you line it up Black and White:

Tanks:
Chosen + BO use a tactic slot to get selfpump
Knight have no selfpump but has Solarflare (9aoe cap)

SM and BO both have trash M4 drains barely draining the natural morale tick rate.
BO has a 6% spamable singletarget drain, SM is 100flat drain locked behind stancedancing (Must be outdated, this cant be true!)

DPS:
BW and Sorc have both selfpump and strong aoe instant morales, makes zero sence. Especially when BW has a 600 morale drain on Burning head too.
Mara aoe drain is on Monstro 25%on hit. WH is 25% on hit While Backattacking. Seems like those two could be met on a compromise with removal of the Backattack condition for WH, or added a 25% on Crit for mara.

Healers:
AM out of group singletarget pump vs Shamma grouppump. pretty nicely balanced tbh.
Zealot does have a 200morale pump on critheal tactic unmatched on RP or any Order healer.
Bombling BW RR 87 [Thundercats]
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Fenris78
Posts: 108

Re: Morale / AP Drain / Pumps

Post#7 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:29 am

Ok, so if we put it on the balance, by class numbers :

- AP gain : 6 Order / 6 Dest = looks like balanced.
- AP Drain : 2 Order / 4 Dest = looks like not fair.
- Morale Pump : 3 Order / 7 Dest = What the heck ? Do you call that balanced ???
- Morale Drain : 4 Order / 3 Dest = Maybe slight imbalance here.

So to put it bland, Destruction got more thant double the classes that can drain AP AND pump Morale ?
No matter how you looks at it being tactic, specific skill, or somewhat so-called useless spec and so on, there are more than double of options for Destro than for Order, and it's clearly not normal.

If you want to balance things out, you at least provides the same counterparts, in same repartition for each side ; I have no problem having Destro with more morale pumps, but in that case, Order should have at least an equal number of means to morale gain.
Otherwise, there is clearly an advantage for one side in combat.

So Order need at least 3 more classes for morale Drain (to make it 3/7 and 7/3 for instance), if you want Morale Drain to be an Order specialty, or vice-versa.
Order may either need 2 more classes with AP gain, if AP drain is favoured for Destruction, or Destruction to lose 2 AP drains if each side got equal means of AP gain.

It's all about fairness here, especially when you want to claim "mirrored classes" ; you can make slight differences to make classes unique (and its good), but for general mechanics as AP and morale, you cannot create too much of a difference here. At least in my humble opinion.
Last edited by Fenris78 on Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

xarax
Posts: 110

Re: Morale / AP Drain / Pumps

Post#8 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:41 am

the list seems to miss some stuff. Like IB Told ya so! and Watch an Learn (AP Gains)
That yellow „Knochen“ guy
BO RR73+
Dok RR82(retired) - BG RR79(nearly retired) - Choppa RR70(retired)

and tooooo many alts

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Gangan
Posts: 549

Re: Morale / AP Drain / Pumps

Post#9 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:14 am

BO "armbreaka" drains 50ap over 5 sec, brawler mastery skill
Pächter des Wahnsinns
Gangan - SH 50+ Blumnmoscha - BO 63
Scophis - Zealot 61 Drengur - WP 64
Iznogoud - Sham 40+ Bixo - Engie 50+
Apogemoth - Magus 40+
originating from Drakenwald

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wonshot
Posts: 486

Re: Morale / AP Drain / Pumps

Post#10 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:24 am

Thanks for the chip in's guys. Half of the list was made out of top of my head and some abilities i had to look up to make sure they were not changed after how I remember them. Surely missed some of them it seems. added them as they are being spotted.

As for the ballance, yeah its not looking pretty but so many factors goes into realm-balance. Imho destro needs to have better morale pumps to match Order's supperior damage and healing for largescale, but its a liiiitle out of hand atm we can agree on that.

Removing the Backattack requirement on the WH mastery tactic, or adding a "on crit" requirement to Mara would be a step in the right direction imo. But still hoping the big Morale overhaul might give us a new and fresh meta, when it comes eventually
Bombling BW RR 87 [Thundercats]
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