I completely agree with you, but I will add that the players not only have nothing to lose in case of loss, they also have nothing to get in case of winning.)) anyway, even in case of loss, they will get the city siege and will take their carrots, and it does not matter how the faction fought before. let's take football as an example, there is a competition, a team can lose one match but win another, and at the end in the pivot table all losses and victories will be recorded, and as a result, each match matters to the team (total score). here you win or lose the zone t2, t3, t4 (match) is not important, anyway the outcome of the battle (and the receipt of equipment) will be decided in the very last match (city siege). I don’t think that teams in football would be very worried about losing in a regular match if the winner were decided only in the last game.Yaliskah wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:54 amNananna, by "losers" i nominate the faction who lose in general, whatever the reason; voluntarily or not (cause unless monitoring H24 logs and players behaviour i don't how server is supposed to adapt its behaviour).Alfa1986 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:06 ami allow myself a little remark. only those who actually fought and were defeated by a stronger rival can be considered losers. here it is not about losing, but about refusing to fight, these are two completely different situations. but people are not to blame for the fact that they see no reason to defend the forts, or to fight, in reality there is a need to just peering honestly and understand the reasons why this happens.Yaliskah wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:02 pmPoint is, we can't "punish" losers, cause (just quoting some feedbacks i had in the past):
1-They will move to the winning faction, because it is all about "being paid" for the time wasted. IMO i'm not sure having a single faction vs no one in the end would be a better design.
2-They stop playing if they have the feeling they will waste their time for 'nothing'.
The hardcore gamer i am would like to see winners rewarded with the blood of losers (good's loser properties), insrtead of "magic" stuff falling from the sky, but i fear, no one would like to experience something who would have some sense and would solve lot of "bad design".
This said, I'm all for testing a month without any roll or reward for losing side in ORVR/Fort/SC and cities. Are players ready for this?
When you say that people are not to blame for the fact they see no reason to defend the forts, or to fight, well, i must disagree (at some level), unless you consider that the purpose of the game is nothing but gearing your own character, for no reason. (Could be interesting to give max lvl+top gear to a brand new player and see how many time he plays before quitting the game. I say less than a week).
Again, the actual system let you win even if you lose, on a personnal base, and the system allows player to follow the path of least resistance for an average result. Because (and there is 0 repproach in this sentence), we are aware there is 0 realm proud (or we wouldn't talk about XRealm), there is 0 will to be punished because your faction don't "play the game" because "you" don't wanna be punished because of others in your own realm. Point is no one wants to lose, and when it happens, the national sport is to find a culprit : Balance, XRealm, Design, PU, Devs.
Actually, there are no consequencies to lose, and this is precisely the detail who breaks the system itself, and even if we were able to modify this, i'm ready to bet, that in time, we would see only 1 faction ingame because winning is more important than playing in the end.
Now to conclude, i'm not saying the actual RvR system is perfect, according it is mostly based on original one, and I would say "fortunately" for the video game industry. If we were able to make things better than professionnals in general (i fear you always forget we aren't), with a smaller team, with 0 tools, and a limited time, maybe should we start to forget this project and focus on something more "commercial" :p.
Now, and again, nothing is in the stone, and with time i'm convinced we will find solutions to enhance all this stuff.
I just wanted to say this when I said that people are not to blame for the fact that they see no reason to protect zones and forts.