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This is normal? (Nerf riposte plz)

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wildwindblows
Posts: 423

Re: This is normal? (Nerf riposte plz)

Post#51 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:13 am

This is totally unfair. I really delete my 8x marauder and play slayer.

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mpa3b
Posts: 54

Re: This is normal? (Nerf riposte plz)

Post#52 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:31 am

Grock wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:07 am
wachlarz wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:54 am We have movie that riposte slayer kill WE not using a single skill. If he use any skill what happens 🤔
are you referring toOP's video? it literally says right there that its a test and not a live duel :lol:

staying in front of an enemy and just spamming regular attacks into their parry isn't how things work in real game
in practice you'll get jumped from stealth and lose 4-5k health just during the knockdown, if the WE has pre-loaded Witchbrew then you aren't gonna get up after knockdown
Grock wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:07 am
wachlarz wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:54 am We have movie that riposte slayer kill WE not using a single skill. If he use any skill what happens 🤔
are you referring toOP's video? it literally says right there that its a test and not a live duel :lol:

staying in front of an enemy and just spamming regular attacks into their parry isn't how things work in real game
in practice you'll get jumped from stealth and lose 4-5k health just during the knockdown, if the WE has pre-loaded Witchbrew then you aren't gonna get up after knockdown
as i said

under the same conditions, there is no way to go behind your back because the character rotates around himself faster than another character goes around him in an arc, moreover, if you have not noticed, slayer does not use skills and WE dies from riposte


I repeat once again under the same conditions you can’t get another player back, this can be done due to ping or the opponent’s sluggishness.

In any case, even if you are so lucky that you hit 50% of your punches in the back of another player, 50% will come in front.
and if you WE in topgear and slayer 42rr in ruin damage you for 50% of your lives without using skill.

if it comes to real application then:
1.Where WE should get a witch brew
2. how can I do 5k dmg in 1.5 seconds knock(stoutness of stone tactic) if after knock WE has 1.5 sec.
this usually happens like this - WE (knock + aa+one skill) -> slayer up (rampage, if it has <50% use rune of absorbtion, if not, it’s just a damage to WE, of course, standing facing WE. If WE survives to the bayer state of slayer she gets a knock and dies.
 but as I already said, the topic is not about slayer and WE, the topic is about ripost and that it is too strong to stay in the form in which it is. The video is just a demonstration of this. (For those who for some reason did not notice slayer does not use skills)

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repel
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Posts: 62

Re: This is normal? (Nerf riposte plz)

Post#53 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:52 am

Secrets wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:31 am
repel wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:13 am @secrets how about this? https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/9762
It may have worked like that on live, and likely should have worked like that here when first implemented, but it's so ingrained in the meta with current balancing that it's probably not worth putting an ICD on riposte at all.

This is less of an issue now especially with parry working like it should; Return of Reckoning had two previous iterations of the parry formula and neither of them were correct. One was the original one implemented before my time that just did not work at all, the next was the one that allowed you to parry/dodge/disrupt DoT ticks which featured a very high parry/dodge/disrupt rate across the board, and then there's what we have now, which is the way Tzeentch intended.

Worth noting is that you can't parry from the back and as long as it has counterplay (ie; not attacking a backpedalling Slayer which makes movement prediction confused as **** and considers you pretty much always in front of the target, or maybe having the Witch Elf actually play the game and use the knockdown, or having the witch elf stack parry, detaunt the Slayer and don't hit the slayer and laugh as the slayer kills himself on your riposte, resulting in rage irl instead of ingame for the Slayer.)
stack parry agains Slayer? good idea you know something about rampage?
ps. now i know that no sense to report any bugs ... you dont care
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Grock
Posts: 918

Re: This is normal? (Nerf riposte plz)

Post#54 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:03 pm

mpa3b wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:31 am as i said

under the same conditions, there is no way to go behind your back because the character rotates around himself faster than another character goes around him in an arc, moreover, if you have not noticed, slayer does not use skills and WE dies from riposte


I repeat once again under the same conditions you can’t get another player back, this can be done due to ping or the opponent’s sluggishness.

In any case, even if you are so lucky that you hit 50% of your punches in the back of another player, 50% will come in front.
and if you WE in topgear and slayer 42rr in ruin damage you for 50% of your lives without using skill.

if it comes to real application then:
1.Where WE should get a witch brew
2. how can I do 5k dmg in 1.5 seconds knock(stoutness of stone tactic) if after knock WE has 1.5 sec.
this usually happens like this - WE (knock + aa+one skill) -> slayer up (rampage, if it has <50% use rune of absorbtion, if not, it’s just a damage to WE, of course, standing facing WE. If WE survives to the bayer state of slayer she gets a knock and dies.
but as I already said, the topic is not about slayer and WE, the topic is about ripost and that it is too strong to stay in the form in which it is. The video is just a demonstration of this. (For those who for some reason did not notice slayer does not use skills)
You seem to be speaking theoretically, I'm just saying how it is in practice when you meet a good witch elf.

In real game turning around to keep enemy in parry window is not very reliable due to latency and difference between what you see on your screen and what actually happens on the server.

If you use SoS tactic together with Riposte then you likely missing Power Through which makes you a lot weaker in 1v1 in general due to having much less uptime on rage dmg bonus and taking a lot longer to reach Incapacitate.

In the end WE always can just get out and leave.

I'm not sure whats your point here anyway, im not defending Riposte, im just telling the other person that the video from original post is not an example of a real duel.
Secrets wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:31 am It may have worked like that on live, and likely should have worked like that here when first implemented, but it's so ingrained in the meta with current balancing that it's probably not worth putting an ICD on riposte at all.
Its not ingrained in any meta except low effort solo builds. And you absolutely can do a solo build on all melee classes without using Riposte.
Especially on Slayer since Rampage lets you ignore enemy parry and not play this stupid riposte game.
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Grock
Posts: 918

Re: This is normal? (Nerf riposte plz)

Post#55 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:13 pm

dalen wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:11 am At least riposte proccing Reckless gamble has a fix pending: https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15227
As far as i remember it procs other things as well, inluding weapon procs, Witchbrew and Slayer/Choppa m2
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Toshutkidup
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Re: This is normal? (Nerf riposte plz)

Post#56 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:46 pm

I run a Riposte Build on my solo Slayer as most Slayers do. True it helps in 1v1 vs mdps, however it hurts vs non mdps classes as well. And on top of that, with the 2H BO's being as strong as they are, using Riposte Im losing 80% of the time against them, choppas are 50/50 for me, WE's depending on play style and build they have can be 50/50 as well. I just dont see a issue as its countered easily, most mdps classes can or run some sort of Riposte and using it limits ur overall chances of killing non mdps classes. And before anyone says Slayer destroys all mdps, I can provide TONS of footage from live streams of me dying to all forms of mdps toons using riposte + Rampage + ROA + ID or whatever else OP tools people complain about Slayers.
First RR90 Slayer working towards the top of the mountain.I still solo, still run riposte.

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dirnsterer
Posts: 178

Re: This is normal? (Nerf riposte plz)

Post#57 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:05 pm

Toshutkidup wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:46 pm I run a Riposte Build on my solo Slayer as most Slayers do. True it helps in 1v1 vs mdps, however it hurts vs non mdps classes as well. And on top of that, with the 2H BO's being as strong as they are, using Riposte Im losing 80% of the time against them, choppas are 50/50 for me, WE's depending on play style and build they have can be 50/50 as well. I just dont see a issue as its countered easily, most mdps classes can or run some sort of Riposte and using it limits ur overall chances of killing non mdps classes. And before anyone says Slayer destroys all mdps, I can provide TONS of footage from live streams of me dying to all forms of mdps toons using riposte + Rampage + ROA + ID or whatever else OP tools people complain about Slayers.
Set multiple tactic slots for different situations, click tactic thing and you can swap between the sets.

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Grock
Posts: 918

Re: This is normal? (Nerf riposte plz)

Post#58 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:09 pm

dirnsterer wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:05 pm Set multiple tactic slots for different situations, click tactic thing and you can swap between the sets.
Doesn't work if you get shot first, or if its been less than 30s since last fight.

Also you forget that riposte build relies on stacking parry, which is naturally useless against ranged enemies.
Even if you switch tactics (to what, btw?) you are still having a lot of your stats wasted in a fight vs ranged opponent.
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Toshutkidup
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Re: This is normal? (Nerf riposte plz)

Post#59 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:11 pm

Set multiple tactic slots for different situations, click tactic thing and you can swap between the sets.



Already do, however this is only viable as long axthe combat hasn’t started. If it’s started ur stuck on whatever tactic ur running.
First RR90 Slayer working towards the top of the mountain.I still solo, still run riposte.

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Toshutkidup
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Re: This is normal? (Nerf riposte plz)

Post#60 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:14 pm

Grock wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:09 pm
dirnsterer wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:05 pm Set multiple tactic slots for different situations, click tactic thing and you can swap between the sets.
Doesn't work if you get shot first, or if its been less than 30s since last fight.

Also you forget that riposte build relies on stacking parry, which is naturally useless against ranged enemies.
Even if you switch tactics (to what, btw?) you are still having a lot of your stats wasted in a fight vs ranged opponent.
Very true
First RR90 Slayer working towards the top of the mountain.I still solo, still run riposte.

Twitch:https://www.twitch.tv/toshutkidup
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