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The "Best PVP MMORPG" - what?

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galaxgal
Posts: 5

Re: The "Best PVP MMORPG" - what?

Post#51 » Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:54 am

mytreds wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:19 pm
Separating T2 and 3 will never happen because logistically I doesn’t make sense. Are lvl 40s gonna wait around for the lowbies to take half a day to unlock those zones?
T4 having a hard dependency on T2 and T3 was, to my knowledge, an RoR invention. Presumably, if the devs were to split off 16-39 like it is for scenarios (they won't), T4 would go back to existing in its own bubble (it won't.)

T2-T3 being its own RvR tier will bring other problems with it, though, like 'nobody doing T2-T3 RvR', just like on retail.

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Winterbeats
Posts: 14

Re: The "Best PVP MMORPG" - what?

Post#52 » Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:27 am

galaxgal wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:54 am
mytreds wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:19 pm
Separating T2 and 3 will never happen because logistically I doesn’t make sense. Are lvl 40s gonna wait around for the lowbies to take half a day to unlock those zones?
T4 having a hard dependency on T2 and T3 was, to my knowledge, an RoR invention. Presumably, if the devs were to split off 16-39 like it is for scenarios (they won't), T4 would go back to existing in its own bubble (it won't.)

T2-T3 being its own RvR tier will bring other problems with it, though, like 'nobody doing T2-T3 RvR', just like on retail.
I played retail, people played T2-T3, maybe once the population started getting lower. I do remember people hated getting punted off sides of structures into lava, but think that was a T3 issue?

mekal
Posts: 16

Re: The "Best PVP MMORPG" - what?

Post#53 » Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:28 am

Kwatchi wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:04 pm
I do sympathize with the new players. It is a hard slog.

While I don't agree with everything said, the Devs could help new players by taking another look at the costing for Devastator and Annihilator. I have leveled toons on nothing but oRvR, and hit 40/5x without complete sets of either armour due to bad bag luck. This leads to massive amounts of Conq emblem breakdowns, which just sets the toon further back. The armour set gear curve from 16 to 39 is not optimized for the speed of leveling at the moment - it almost feels like you should avoid the 2x events. New players hitting 40 without even full Annihilator (thats not even the 40/4x "base" set) is a balance problem that needs to be addressed.

Hard to "Git Gud" when you are in a mishmash of Anni and greens/PQ blues for the lack of something better. Healers/rdps can manage to an extent, but tanks and mdps are just insta-squashed.

Upward conversion of Officer medallions into Conqueror would also help here, but I seem to recall the Devs dead set against that. Hopefully the full Invader before Vanquisher foolishness was solved by the last patch at least.
Why would you ever break down conq emblems when you can farm ruin set in 1-2 hours which can easily compete with annihilator after that get beastlord and following that run gunbad all while still getting conq medals in between pve groups
stealthc98 wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:41 pm
This whole thread can be summed up with a "learn to play" comment.
My thoughts exactly this whole arguement just screams newb thinks he knows all

I have leveled 4 toons in the past 2 weeks through t2-t3 and never once did I feel inferior due to gear if you gear your character through pve mixed with pvp its impossible to fall behind

What plays a much bigger part is actually assisting targets proper guard swapping managing punts and peels
galaxgal wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:54 am
mytreds wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:19 pm
Separating T2 and 3 will never happen because logistically I doesn’t make sense. Are lvl 40s gonna wait around for the lowbies to take half a day to unlock those zones?
T4 having a hard dependency on T2 and T3 was, to my knowledge, an RoR invention. Presumably, if the devs were to split off 16-39 like it is for scenarios (they won't), T4 would go back to existing in its own bubble (it won't.)

T2-T3 being its own RvR tier will bring other problems with it, though, like 'nobody doing T2-T3 RvR', just like on retail.
The pairings used to be t1 t2&t3 and t4 and guess what no one ever did rvr in mid tier because there is absolutely no reason to unless you enjoy it everyone would just power level their way to 40 so they can actually start gearing their character

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Mitzie
Posts: 22

Re: The "Best PVP MMORPG" - what?

Post#54 » Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:38 am

Wait so you're saying an AOE DPS with proper support did more damage than anyone else? What a shocker.
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SaintRon
Posts: 44

Re: The "Best PVP MMORPG" - what?

Post#55 » Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:17 am

I just won a t2-t3 scenario with no healers and 3 tanks.

I was top "healing" order side as a SM and it was a complete 500-150ish stomp.

Winterbeats
Posts: 14

Re: The "Best PVP MMORPG" - what?

Post#56 » Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:09 am

thewilling wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:09 pm
I got into this game hard these past few weeks, leveling a ton of classes through T1 and into T2 and this game has to be one of the most unbalanced games I've ever played.

You can somewhat compete in T1 as long as you keep upgrading your gear as you level but as soon as you step into T2+ as a fresh level 16 you'll be insta-deleted. You do negligible damage if any gets through your target's defenses and if an enemy so much as sneezes in your direction you'll be clicking respawn.

You can equip your obliterator's set at 17 but it makes no difference at all. Even in scenarios where it's levels 16-39 you'll get absolutely destroyed by any higher level or geared player. The sheer impact of gear in PVP is laughable, it makes certain players bosses and others nothing more than trash mobs.

Here you have a scenario where a level 38 Choppa dealt more damage than ALL of our DPS combined: https://imgur.com/a/s7yi6dl

So not only do you have to endure being near worthless on your respawn-clicking adventure to max level, but once you actually get to 40 the difference between you and a geared player is even more extreme as bolstering is no longer in effect.

Rather than more subtle improvements to certain aspects of your build, the next few tiers of gear and especially the last set make characters absolute monsters that slap around the fresh 40s that haven't put in the many months of grind that are required to get the gear.

So all these new players (and I am one of them) asking if they can be viable with x class or y build need to realize that they won't be viable at all unless they put in the tons of hours it requires to offset the gear imbalance in this game and that'll only come after being repeatedly stomped on your journey to 40 and then continue after that once you hop on the gear treadmill.

It's especially frustrating because I thought I'd love to battle it out in the open world but that's just not possible. For a game that needs a strong population to function it's sad to see the leveling and early 40s experience be so shitty. With just a few changes this imbalance could be remedied somewhat, but I've read that the devs aren't "taking proposals" ; so with that attitude and seeing that they themselves added this treadmill and have probably gone through it by now I don't see a change happening any time soon.
I was following the thread you posted on the RoR Reddit, but cannot find the post anymore...

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EsthelielSunfury
Posts: 92

Re: The "Best PVP MMORPG" - what?

Post#57 » Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:09 am

mytreds wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:19 pm
Separating T2 and 3 will never happen because logistically I doesn’t make sense. Are lvl 40s gonna wait around for the lowbies to take half a day to unlock those zones? What will they do while all the undergeared professional gamer geniuses take their time to simply knockdown a wall? I love the fact vets can come to T2 and 3 because it helps level my lower level alts that much quicker, and get loot faster which helps to gear faster, etc etc. Be careful what you wish for OP and others. You may not like what you get. But since I doubt you will listen to us, just go play another game and don’t waste your time here.
The way I understand it, T2 and T3 have no bearing on the campaign result, only T4 with pairings does? Do correct me here.

Why can't T2 and T3 be on a rotation like T1 is? Also, it's kinda cringy to imply it's because new players know best - that's the problem, it took me 180 hours to learn how the ram works, and if progression was slower, the way it's meant to be I would've found out sooner, along with all the other new players.

"take their time to simply knockdown a wall?" You can maybe lie on the forums about this, but you must've not played RvR in T4 recently.

AFK Ranged DPS not hitting walls, all of them well into endgame gear, no one attacking posterns, not knowing how to funnel for defense, no one even reads chat to open the way for a damned ram to work the door, millions dying to oil the moment outer door is destroyed - common sense if you've played other games and do you know what this stems from? Lack of community mentoring which is not going to happen since everything in T2 and T3 is done by 40s and you simply wander around like cannon fodder, not learning the game slowly but being punted straight away into Dragonwake stalemates from Ekrund PvP.

And do you know what the best thing is? The blame game in the chat after wiping - everyone constantly blaming all the lowbies, the horrible villainous new players that ruined their siege, all the while them being AFK and in PuG warbands expecting Total War coordination. Well you wanted T2-4 merged? That's what you get, people in 40s with no idea what to do but play the zerg vs zerg game.

From all the replies I've read in this thread and mine, the problem in this community seems to be that too many here are hostile to new solutions because they've played for too long. Any kind of change threatens what already works, but it doesn't have to be a radical solution? Limiting 40s to T4 would alienate a good chunk of the playerbase - keeping T2-3 for a few hours 16-39 would perhaps give more breathing space to newer players. Perhaps even allowing T2 on a single rotation map after the campaign has locked it could work. At least give some ideas, don't just shoot down anything because you and the other 1% has figured out bolster, so that makes it okay for everyone else.

growill
Posts: 70

Re: The "Best PVP MMORPG" - what?

Post#58 » Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:46 pm

EsthelielSunfury wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:09 am
The way I understand it, T2 and T3 have no bearing on the campaign result, only T4 with pairings does? Do correct me here.

Why can't T2 and T3 be on a rotation like T1 is? Also, it's kinda cringy to imply it's because new players know best - that's the problem, it took me 180 hours to learn how the ram works, and if progression was slower, the way it's meant to be I would've found out sooner, along with all the other new players.

"take their time to simply knockdown a wall?" You can maybe lie on the forums about this, but you must've not played RvR in T4 recently.

AFK Ranged DPS not hitting walls, all of them well into endgame gear, no one attacking posterns, not knowing how to funnel for defense, no one even reads chat to open the way for a damned ram to work the door, millions dying to oil the moment outer door is destroyed - common sense if you've played other games and do you know what this stems from? Lack of community mentoring which is not going to happen since everything in T2 and T3 is done by 40s and you simply wander around like cannon fodder, not learning the game slowly but being punted straight away into Dragonwake stalemates from Ekrund PvP.

I'm fairly new (around lv30 now) and I actually do agree with this. To me it makes sense merging T2-4 when population is an issue but now it doesn't seem one. I would actually love to see it split up more cause honestly I don't find 200vs200 all that fun. This is also the reason why many players just keep rerollin T1 chars because as you hit 16 you feel like an ant thrown between lions. Truth is, when you learn your way around bolster equip etc everything is fine but I do agree with you. Also most of the action takes place in T4 areas anyway leaving t2/3 empty

And do you know what the best thing is? The blame game in the chat after wiping - everyone constantly blaming all the lowbies, the horrible villainous new players that ruined their siege, all the while them being AFK and in PuG warbands expecting Total War coordination. Well you wanted T2-4 merged? That's what you get, people in 40s with no idea what to do but play the zerg vs zerg game.

This is an entirely different thing imo. It's something that still blows my mind. My first siege at lv > 16 was crazy. We lost because at every push all the casters would just sit in the doorway. People had been trying so hard and (believe or not) politely to explain how things work but it was like talking with people with the chat turned off. And maybe it was like that because I don't know what kind of brain damage one must have to not understand after 3 times to simply not stand in the middle of the freaking doorway

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Alsayr
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Re: The "Best PVP MMORPG" - what?

Post#59 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:00 am

thewilling wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:09 pm
I got into this game hard these past few weeks, leveling a ton of classes through T1 and into T2 and this game has to be one of the most unbalanced games I've ever played.
Thats why il try not kill low levels in RVR :D. You must know in rvr (after T1) You can meet high geared toons. It is not unbalance, play with highed geared players (friends etc...).
thewilling wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:09 pm
You can somewhat compete in T1 as long as you keep upgrading your gear as you level but as soon as you step into T2+ as a fresh level 16 you'll be insta-deleted. You do negligible damage if any gets through your target's defenses and if an enemy so much as sneezes in your direction you'll be clicking respawn.

You can equip your obliterator's set at 17 but it makes no difference at all. Even in scenarios where it's levels 16-39 you'll get absolutely destroyed by any higher level or geared player. The sheer impact of gear in PVP is laughable, it makes certain players bosses and others nothing more than trash mobs.

Here you have a scenario where a level 38 Choppa dealt more damage than ALL of our DPS combined: https://imgur.com/a/s7yi6dl
Any1 know what happens in ending T3 char was close to T4, 38 lvl and 39 lvl owning in sc. It's also not unbalance
thewilling wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:09 pm
So not only do you have to endure being near worthless on your respawn-clicking adventure to max level, but once you actually get to 40 the difference between you and a geared player is even more extreme as bolstering is no longer in effect.

Rather than more subtle improvements to certain aspects of your build, the next few tiers of gear and especially the last set make characters absolute monsters that slap around the fresh 40s that haven't put in the many months of grind that are required to get the gear.

So all these new players (and I am one of them) asking if they can be viable with x class or y build need to realize that they won't be viable at all unless they put in the tons of hours it requires to offset the gear imbalance in this game and that'll only come after being repeatedly stomped on your journey to 40 and then continue after that once you hop on the gear treadmill.

It's especially frustrating because I thought I'd love to battle it out in the open world but that's just not possible. For a game that needs a strong population to function it's sad to see the leveling and early 40s experience be so shitty. With just a few changes this imbalance could be remedied somewhat, but I've read that the devs aren't "taking proposals" ; so with that attitude and seeing that they themselves added this treadmill and have probably gone through it by now I don't see a change happening any time soon.
Lets talk about end game.
if you end "unbalanced" time And You are get one of the end game sets you are see this game in another side.
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Sulorie
Posts: 4682

Re: The "Best PVP MMORPG" - what?

Post#60 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:23 am

All those rank 35-39 destro got farmed hard yesterday and my lvl17 char just felt right. No issues at all. I know for a fact, that the rank is not the reason for unbalanced scenarios. Hell, I out-healed everyone without even having group heal. The blame-game makes you feel better after losing but it doesn't make you a better player, keep that in mind.
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