The "Best PVP MMORPG" - what?

[saupreusse]

I agree that the skill ceiling in glibal cooldown based games is lower compared to mobas or most modern titles in general. Now add some clunk that this game always had and a good amount of bugs that make tracking moving targets already hard enough because the engine client cant really handle any movement that goes beyong punting someone into lava. Add not being able to cast while airbourne and a lack of movement skills on most classes and you are left with what this game is: a clunkfest for old returning players and roleplayers that dont give two shits about actually ever trying to be successfull in terms of mastering their class and are pretty confident just pressing 3 buttons while zerging cities day in and day out. Most of the ppl playing here are above 30 and wont be as competitive as ppl in their teens. Man i bet my thumb most of tje players here wouldnt last a second in fast paced games. Gear plays too much of a difference here and its hard to grasp for me that sovereign sets released with the stats they have because like 2 years ago the common concensus in the dev team was that these sets will face the nerf hammer to level the playing field some more. Some setups and high enough gear allow you to become nearly immune to mistakes on your side if your enemies are just 2 sets behind you. No skill required. The few 6man teams and balance advocates we had are all gone because no one ever was interested in their opinions. Ive just felt the same as op thats why i just went play other games. Today i only play this game to relax in the zerg hitting my 2 button nerfed buttons macro helping my newby mates leveling their 2h wps knowing damn well they will never be a real melee without at least rr60. But its fun. Were just enjoying the hilarious gameplay and trolling through the lakes. And once you have enough of it you go play some lol or animal crossing ^^

[EsthelielSunfury]

I still think the leveling experience in RvR would be much less of a frustrating one if T2 and T3 were off to 40s for a time. The population to support it is certainly there, and those tiers have no importance to the campaign outside of just zone locking, which is what happens with T1 anyway. It really is super weird not gearing up the way the game was intended, having max influence on a T4 faction and not being able to get your T2 reward because everytime you log in, T2 is all locked instant and the zones never unlock again until City is done. And the moment they do for lower level players? All the 40s from the City rush in again to lock them straight away, so you end up as cannon fodder.

It's not even about balance, it's about fixing the damned PvP bracket. 16-40 is insane.

[Likeaboss]

Here you have a scenario where a level 38 Choppa dealt more damage than ALL of our DPS combined: https://imgur.com/a/s7yi6dl

Problem i see in this picture, your top dps are 2 tanks and a dps WP... then you don't need to wonder why that choppa could slaughter through order Lines...

I have now expirience from 2 toons i played last weeks in t2-t3 sc's.. And it was funny..
-As lvl 16 Runepriest without the Groupheal i had 470k heal, next order was at 67k
-And as BW lvl 16 (with Havoc Set) my BB's crited for 3k+

So its not a balance issue, neither a Bolster one... that works fine. but as new player it is hard against ppl that maybe have 10+ Years experience. Never played WoW, but couldnt you send OP gearn from your high Main, to your low alt? and Frag low level?
nvm... Balance especially in low tier is pretty good.

[Nekkma]

I can somehwat sympatize with op. The main problem as I see it is that fresh players get matched against veteran players quite fast. As Manatikik pointed out, there is actually alot of knowledge about your own class and all the other classes that goes into being succesful. This is something a new player will always lack and it cannot be overcome by bolster.

It is easier to learn all this bit by bit, say by having 4 tiers. This has not been a good solution on this server because of limited population. This means that a fresh player after rank 16 gets exposed to everything at the same time. All abilities and players with 10+ years experience who knows how to utilize their class and exploit the weakness of their oponent.

I am an avarage player myself and still when I go into T1 I typically dominate because of knowledge and effort about target selection, assisitng, proper set up ui, talismans, potions etc.

Compared to other pvp games (that I have played), this game is heavily trinity-focused which means even an excellent player may be totally neutralized (depending on class) against avaragre players that work as a team withing the trinity composition.

[Twohandernoob]

It's fine when (if) you know what you are doing. You can level up, be under geared and know exactly what you can and cant do with your limitations.

The doubly whammy is being under geared and new. There is a learning curve. You're better served sticking to one toon for a while if you want to persist.

[Sulorie]

Here you have a scenario where a level 38 Choppa dealt more damage than ALL of our DPS combined: https://imgur.com/a/s7yi6dl

Problem i see in this picture, your top dps are 2 tanks and a dps WP... then you don't need to wonder why that choppa could slaughter through order Lines...

I have now expirience from 2 toons i played last weeks in t2-t3 sc's.. And it was funny..
-As lvl 16 Runepriest without the Groupheal i had 470k heal, next order was at 67k
-And as BW lvl 16 (with Havoc Set) my BB's crited for 3k+

So its not a balance issue, neither a Bolster one... that works fine. but as new player it is hard against ppl that maybe have 10+ Years experience. Never played WoW, but couldnt you send OP gearn from your high Main, to your low alt? and Frag low level?
nvm... Balance especially in low tier is pretty good.

One of the few rationale comments here, thanks.
Exactly my thoughts, when I play new char and top scoreboard. But then I watch people play and check their gear, it becomes obvious, why they struggle.
On top of it, having standard UI makes is almost impossible to play properly as tank or healer. Even as DD it's hard to track, who you have in target.

[Vlad333]

The devs should test the bracket as the game is inteded for at least a day, to see what happens, given that the game has a big population now.
I am happy, to say the least, that on this thread we did get some replies from people with 500+ posts that are clearly vets, which agree to these issues.
As someone said above, the t2-t3 zones are mostly locked, whenever i log in. I must play Reikland, Praag or Chaos Wastes all the time, because the 40's instalock everything else.
It just shoehorns you in the same places all the time, making you miss much of the world and the content. This disastrous approach cannot be intended, so the devs have to do something about it if they wish to keep the server with such a healthy population.

[thewilling]

So its not a balance issue, neither a Bolster one... that works fine. but as new player it is hard against ppl that maybe have 10+ Years experience.... Balance especially in low tier is pretty good.

It is very much a balance issue, a spell or two can put your fresh character out of commission in T2 regardless if your account is a week old or 5 years old. There’s no lack of knowledge here that’s giving lowbies and fresh 40s a direct +%chance to be critically hit or -%chance to land damage, that would be the monstrous stat imbalance caused by GEAR. Balance in tier 1 seems better because there’s no access to the higher tiers of gear. Imagine people in T1 running around with the level 28+ medallion set. That’s what you get in T2+ with those entering or reaching 40 getting the feeling they’ve just spawned in full whites.

As Manatikik pointed out, there is actually alot of knowledge about your own class and all the other classes that goes into being succesful. This is something a new player will always lack and it cannot be overcome by bolster.

This has not been a good solution on this server because of limited population. This means that a fresh player after rank 16 gets exposed to everything at the same time. All abilities and players with 10+ years experience who knows how to utilize their class and exploit the weakness of their oponent.

I am an avarage player myself and still when I go into T1 I typically dominate because of knowledge and effort about target selection, assisitng, proper set up ui, talismans, potions etc.

I’m sure there’s a lot of knowledge to be picked up about classes, roles, and subtleties in certain engagements. That doesn’t apply here in the slightest. I made it clear several times I’m referring to how gear introduces major gameplay flaws and deteriorates the game as a whole. The only knowledge that would help here would be in how to completely twink out your character every few levels to dumpster lower leveled players in scenarios 16-39. That’s not helping anyone. Separating the tiers would improve things a lot but at its core the solution needs to be the removal or scaling down of the ridiculous gear power creep and % improvement one set to the next gives and the reduction of the grind required to obtain them. You’re dominating in T1 because target selection... assisting... UI? No, it’s because you update your gear, slot talismans, and use potions. That simple. There’s nothing complicated about guarding mdps or focusing healers especially when your attacks chunk them for 20% hp at a time.

when I play new char and top scoreboard. But then I watch people play and check their gear, it becomes obvious, why they struggle.
On top of it, having standard UI makes is almost impossible to play properly as tank or healer. Even as DD it's hard to track, who you have in target.

Thanks, your comment makes it very clear why I made this post. Also, every time the UI gets mentioned in a thread about geared players nearly one shotting lowbies I can’t help but smile. I’m pretty sure VinUI comes by default with the game files, as irrelevant as that is to this discussion.

[Nekkma]

Actually, the impression I get when doing scenarios is that it is in no way easy to "guard mdps or focusing healer" for the general pugger. About gear i do not use any special twink gear. Just the green vendor gear and scenario weps and rvr set, some +8-10 green talismans. Nothing special.

And quite frankly, from reading alot of these threads from newer players it is very clear that they lack alot of knowledge about the game (even if they identify as progamer who mastered everyhting in a few weeks).

[Hecksa]

Actually, the impression I get when doing scenarios is that it is in no way easy to "guard mdps or focusing healer" for the general pugger.

You bring up a good point. Pugs are often doing things wrong, and it can be hard to get them to fix it.

There are a lot of people in scenarios who will scream at their allies to "assist on me" or "push the healers" or whatever. It's generally a lost cause. Instead of trying that, when I'm pugging I find much more success just picking the DPS player on my side that seems most competent, and assisting whatever targets they pick. If they choose badly, try assisting someone else.

Often, seeing a couple of people hitting the same target has the effect of guiding more allies to the same place, and soon enough you have an assist train. Get enough people assisting, and even if the target's bad you're still likely going to get good results against other pugs.