The "Best PVP MMORPG" - what?

[Sulorie]

You forgot to mention the level 39 choppa with slightly more than 1/10 of the damage of that good one. They had a premade for sure.
The dmg number is aoe dmg btw, because your team was very bad at positioning and got pulled over and over.
Your rant won't get you any help here.

[Vlad333]

I see so many complains about this and yet everyone fails to gear up properly!

Get proper gear, socket your talis and own... At the latest with lvl25 you're a real thread to anything.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=36617&start=10#p399393
In this thread i posted my lvl20, that has partly higher stats than most lvl40 chosen.

Sure you miss 3-4 skills and some tactics, some classes have their peaks at t1 and drop from there, some classes have their peak with RR70, but to say you are doomed to be useless is just a lie.

Another (better) example: Volgo and his lvl29 BG hunting lvl40s of the "most op classes 1vs1" ingame like WL, AM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvSgnqHXiY8

The complaint is legitimate, regardless of your examples.
The experience is a terrible mess. The skill factor in this game is close to nil. I find no possibility of outplaying anyone, most spells are bland and just very few gimmicks that you can do. Maybe fake a cast to bait a taunt or punting some loser off a bridge, stuff like that, things that are done in other games way better, since they are fluid, not a clunky mess.
You are telling us of "proper gear". You go into SC's and you buy the SC set available for your gear. That should be proper gear. I can max it out with talis and whatnot, will not make a difference against a 38 destro who is humping us in SC's.
Besides the whole mess of being forced to find premades and playing with someone everyday, or else you are stuck to queueing only one map out of 30, where you still lose because there are 2 man premades everywhere and destro being just better.
I, as any other guy here, like the game, otherwise i would never put up with this crap. I have never seen in all my gaming life ( 20 years ) such an imbalanced experience.
Having to win 1 t2 sc in 2 days of gameplay is something that is mathematically impossible in other games, that are objectively worse than this one. Even if you are the most epic trash player, you will still have above 40% win rate as you can get carried by others.
Of course, i do not want to be carried, that is not what i advocate for, i just know for a fact the game has to be broken or rigged. I made a calculus and i have 96% loss rate since i made lvl 16 on my IB. 97% loss rate on my BW in t2.
T1 feels the most balanced, to be honest.
I really prefer more mature answers than "git gud" and such because the mechanical level of the game is very easy, and i have played other games with a way higher skill floor and ceiling. This is not a hard game by any means. Not because of mechanics at least.
I mean, sometimes i press things so fast that the game cannot compute. Even doing the most basic mmo trash trick like popping an instant spell after a casted one feels clunky.
Also, specs are shoehorned into their archetype, proving my point that skill has nothing to do with most outcomes. The moment you are playing a dps WP, you are gimping yourself, same with other examples like 2h tanks or w/e other offspec you can think of. That is an actual proof of bad balance, because the game was intended for those to happen, otherwise the option would not exist. They should work. I shouldn't wait for ultra endgame gear to be a viable 2h warrior priest. Just an example.
I can go on and tarnish this game but for what it's worth, i still kinda like it because it is the only Warhammer MMO experience.

Oh, and please let us newer guys how to gear properly, and i'm not sarcastic. I want to know. I already keep up with talismans on every new gear piece that i get.

Look, I have to say this. I disagree with almost everything you've said in this post. I've played almost every PVP MMO that's ever been released, and the skill ceiling in this game is actually quite high. I just don't think you understand what you are talking about, as a new player. I'm not trying to be rude, or dismissive here of your concerns, but you aren't even close to being correct.

That being said, I see you had an ask, and a question, and just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean I am unwilling to help you.

Here's a very quick guide on how to gear yourself once you hit level 40:

1. Get your Conqueror or Dominator set (depending on what class and build you are going for) ASAP (or go and get a comparable PVE set you want). The best way to do this is to downgrade your Vanquisher or Oppressor emblems (for Conq and Dom respectively) as they down-convert into 5 tokens each. That means you can turn every Vanq or Oppressor into 5x the amount of Conqs/Dominators. This should let you get your first "40" set in just a few days at most.
2. Do the Beastlord Quests and/or fight in ORVR for zone flips to get Genesis set jewelry (drops in blue+ bags), and Subjugator purple weapons (drop in purple+ bags).
3. Make sure to use talismans in all your gear. Buy the best ones you can afford for the correct stats.
4. POTS POTS POTS POTS!!!! Are you using a decent armor pot and or liniment/stat pot? No? Then you shouldn't be out in RVR at 40, you just played yourself. Do you have AP and Heal pots from the vendors? Use your officer medallions on them in IC. Also go buy heal pots from the auction house, they stack with your officer medal heal pots so you can heal twice (they don't share the same cooldown).

For pre-level 40, you generally speaking, have 2 choices of gear set for every "tier bracket", that means levels 1-11, 12-21, 22-31, 32-39, (and then a lot of sets after 40). You want to make sure you are buying one of these sets every one of these brackets. They either drop from scenarios, or ORVR, so just make sure you look at the sets (they are your capital city at the vendors) and pick which one you want before you level to the appropriate level, this way you can see if you need to do ORVR or Scenario to farm the appropriate tokens. For the rest of your gear, the vendors in the capital city, also sell green items, such as jewlery, belts, and cloaks, which you can buy to keep yourself geared up until you hit 40, these all scale with the tiers I mentioned above, so there are level 10 versions, 20 version, etc... You also can buy weapons from the scenario merchant dudes, so if you want to go get the ORVR gear, do that and then do some scenario and make sure to get your weapon upgrades as well.

Thats the basic/rough guide there. I'm happy to answer more questions if you have on how to gear, but not interested in hearing about your opinions on how skillful this game is, since you are new and honestly, you don't know.

The problem here is that you did not read my post carefully, which makes your invalidation, invalid. You cannot disagree with something you do not understand fully.
I'm not even lvl 40, and at this rate of losing constantly, i will never be.
Just because I am new, it does not mean i do not know things. I have 6 chars on each side and I know most skills by now. Everything you told me is redundant because i do all those. Imagine me saying "i keep up with talismans" and you telling me about capital city vendors. It is basically an insult, as i do all of this.
I researched a lot on this game and scoured the forums. I know all the stats, how they work, mechanics, you name it.
The game mechanics are easy. You name some mechanics that show skill in this game besides the ones i mentioned, which are generic and nothing special. There is no dodging, no fast CC breaks, no invincibility frames that take a split second, nothing but broken ass stats that save your ass, like this lvl 24 Magus that i keep seeing in SC's that no matter what the hell you do, he is disrupting everything.
Is that skill on his part? no. It is just renown points pumped into disrupt and some dumbass build. I did my counter, pumped all into INT, yet he disrupts everything, at the same level with me.
The game being so clunky and technically behind this day and age, leaves little room for skillful play.
There is some skill, i did not deny that, but it is marginal and pretty basic.
Trust me, i do know. Being new means nothing when you can analyze a game in 2 weeks to know almost every detail of it. This comes with experience in these types of games. I do not need 6 months to know stuff, i get them in under a week.
Not trying to be arrogant, just wanting to let you know that your presumption is flawed.

[thewilling]

Look, I have to say this. I disagree with almost everything you've said in this post. I've played almost every PVP MMO that's ever been released, and the skill ceiling in this game is actually quite high. I just don't think you understand what you are talking about, as a new player. I'm not trying to be rude, or dismissive here of your concerns, but you aren't even close to being correct.

....

Here's a very quick guide on how to gear yourself once you hit level 40:

I've played a ton of MMOs in my time and I happen to agree with Vlad; you disagree with almost everything so I'm curious where he's wrong? The game is heavily gear based and this causes major imbalance for players across the board and instead of speaking of ways to gain a mechanical advantage, or which abilities he should look out for, or how to engage certain classes in RVR, your first piece of advice is how to get geared in order to be at all relevant. That says a lot. The gear treadmill is real and its effect deteriorates gameplay, just because you know how to make it go a bit quicker and take advantage of those who don't doesn't fix the problem, especially not for those hitting T2 or level 40.

[dirnsterer]

Just go play Counter-Strike or Dota2 if you want a balanced pvp experience where everyone can get off from the same spring board from the very start.

[Ruscour]

I think you'd have a more productive discussion if your post title had something to do with your actual issue (i.e. bolster scaling) rather than dramatisation

[Manatikik]

Look, I have to say this. I disagree with almost everything you've said in this post. I've played almost every PVP MMO that's ever been released, and the skill ceiling in this game is actually quite high. I just don't think you understand what you are talking about, as a new player. I'm not trying to be rude, or dismissive here of your concerns, but you aren't even close to being correct.

....

Here's a very quick guide on how to gear yourself once you hit level 40:

I've played a ton of MMOs in my time and I happen to agree with Vlad; you disagree with almost everything so I'm curious where he's wrong? The game is heavily gear based and this causes major imbalance for players across the board and instead of speaking of ways to gain a mechanical advantage, or which abilities he should look out for, or how to engage certain classes in RVR, your first piece of advice is how to get geared in order to be at all relevant. That says a lot. The gear treadmill is real and its effect deteriorates gameplay, just because you know how to make it go a bit quicker and take advantage of those who don't doesn't fix the problem, especially not for those hitting T2 or level 40.

Well MMO's foundation is gear/progression is its kinda paramount to power curve/success in this genre. But to you're whole "skill has nothing to do" statement; do you know ever immunity? are you tracking it? do you know debuff icons/cd's/use your own detaunt? Guard icons and track immuniites to punt/cc tanks away from your target? Are you counter playing the enemies punt/cc game? Do you know what rotation is going to be on you and how to counter it? Do you know every major heal icon/animation and how to shatter/sever/interrupt them? How is your knowledge on the morale meta and what are the enemies win conditions? Do you have your aura/buffhead/dufftimer/daocbuff set up properly so you can track snare breakers/FM's? Flee +AP pot? Are you taunt cycling rezzes as a tank? Most 'skill based things' are built upon a foundation of knowledge in any game (besides maybe true skill based games like fps's or whatever) so if you don't have that foundation of knowledge how are you going to outplay your opponent?

Sounds like you just don't want to put in the work to learn a new game to get better at it where as an MMO is all about time-sync to learn all the hundreds of abilities/effects/icons and what have you while also progressing your toon to a better gear/power level (that tapers off more evenly at Vanq level but all T2/T3 sets are more than viable in t2/t3 content). I really does sound like you have the new wave problem of wanting everything handed to you on a platter without putting in work to learn and gear yourself which this game just doesn't cater to - the crux of this game comes down to knowledge and you how you react with your decision making as opposed to who can time a dodge roll the best and chain together the same sequence on keys.

[Detangler]

What are you guys even talking about, of course he's mastered this game in 2 weeks and knows all and sees all. Why even bother questioning his game IQ or give him pointers, you are in the presence of a gaming demi-god.

[Crumbs]

Just putting it out there Vlad doesn't matter how much you think you know about a game. If you can't put any of it into effect then you're bad.

Your results and muscle memory will tell you about how good you are... Nothing else.

[Vlad333]

Look, I have to say this. I disagree with almost everything you've said in this post. I've played almost every PVP MMO that's ever been released, and the skill ceiling in this game is actually quite high. I just don't think you understand what you are talking about, as a new player. I'm not trying to be rude, or dismissive here of your concerns, but you aren't even close to being correct.

....

Here's a very quick guide on how to gear yourself once you hit level 40:

I've played a ton of MMOs in my time and I happen to agree with Vlad; you disagree with almost everything so I'm curious where he's wrong? The game is heavily gear based and this causes major imbalance for players across the board and instead of speaking of ways to gain a mechanical advantage, or which abilities he should look out for, or how to engage certain classes in RVR, your first piece of advice is how to get geared in order to be at all relevant. That says a lot. The gear treadmill is real and its effect deteriorates gameplay, just because you know how to make it go a bit quicker and take advantage of those who don't doesn't fix the problem, especially not for those hitting T2 or level 40.

Well MMO's foundation is gear/progression is its kinda paramount to power curve/success in this genre. But to you're whole "skill has nothing to do" statement; do you know ever immunity? are you tracking it? do you know debuff icons/cd's/use your own detaunt? Guard icons and track immuniites to punt/cc tanks away from your target? Are you counter playing the enemies punt/cc game? Do you know what rotation is going to be on you and how to counter it? Do you know every major heal icon/animation and how to shatter/sever/interrupt them? How is your knowledge on the morale meta and what are the enemies win conditions? Do you have your aura/buffhead/dufftimer/daocbuff set up properly so you can track snare breakers/FM's? Flee +AP pot? Are you taunt cycling rezzes as a tank? Most 'skill based things' are built upon a foundation of knowledge in any game (besides maybe true skill based games like fps's or whatever) so if you don't have that foundation of knowledge how are you going to outplay your opponent?

Sounds like you just don't want to put in the work to learn a new game to get better at it where as an MMO is all about time-sync to learn all the hundreds of abilities/effects/icons and what have you while also progressing your toon to a better gear/power level (that tapers off more evenly at Vanq level but all T2/T3 sets are more than viable in t2/t3 content). I really does sound like you have the new wave problem of wanting everything handed to you on a platter without putting in work to learn and gear yourself which this game just doesn't cater to - the crux of this game comes down to knowledge and you how you react with your decision making as opposed to who can time a dodge roll the best and chain together the same sequence on keys.

I appreciate you mentioning all of these elements. I know some of them, some i do not. I have my buffhead in a standard setting, i just made the icons larger. I know some important ones to look after.
The problem with your reply is that 98% of what you mentioned does not exist in t2. No one does these things. The imbalance does not come from the lack of this knowledge.
I mean, people have no clue what to do on maw of madness. That is the reality of lvl 16+ experience.

[Vlad333]

@Manatikik Also, the game's animations are so bad, that it is virtually impossible to know who what is casting, judging by effects alone. There is no other factor in knowing what he is casting.
I mean, i have max settings and Bunch of Whaag beam does not appear 90% of the times. How can someone taunt interrupt spells when no one knows what spells they are.
BW spell animation for example is the same for 7+ spells that i currently have.
Even if everything you said would be viable, although i never saw anyone on youtube with that amount of customization on their UI, but for the sake of example, let's say that is a reality. That stuff should be THAT min/maxed on a pro scene or some tournament level.
Not a fricking lvl 20 sc. C'mon.