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[Theorycrafing] Toughness beyond understanding

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abezverkhiy
Posts: 123

Re: [Theorycrafing] Toughness beyond understanding

Post#11 » Sun May 03, 2020 11:41 am

I overlooked that you asked about magical damage not melee.Try this:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=971&p=9918#p9918

Some info re spells is on the second page.
Valknutt WP, Lochdhu IB, Tamdhu SL, Glenturret ENG, Vanhelsen WH

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Grimbur
Posts: 18

Re: [Theorycrafing] Toughness beyond understanding

Post#12 » Sun May 03, 2020 1:48 pm

Elemint wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 11:10 am
Toughness reduction is applied before the cast time multiplication - so it gets multiplied too. Cast time of fireball is 3 seconds, cast time of BB defaults to 1.5 - so you have double the reduction from toughness on fireball.
Hmm ... What you say makes perfect sense.

That would mean than the bowling blood mitigation (-230) is this "flat" value that is removed from all damage.
So a 3-sec fireball would reduce the damage from (230 * 2) and my tests indicate 461 ... it works

Even for the ignite dot, it kinda work. 3 ticks of (-76) = 228 and again almost this "230" flat number.

Doesnt seem to work for the channeled Withering heat though, since it is a 6-sec / 4 ticks damage.
6 sec would mean 4 GCD so 4 Toughness reduction, as fireballs works. So, each tick should be reduced by 230 and it is only 153.


Groumf

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Wiede
Posts: 238

Re: [Theorycrafing] Toughness beyond understanding

Post#13 » Sun May 03, 2020 2:18 pm

Grimbur wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 1:48 pm

Doesnt seem to work for the channeled Withering heat though, since it is a 6-sec / 4 ticks damage.
6 sec would mean 4 GCD so 4 Toughness reduction, as fireballs works. So, each tick should be reduced by 230 and it is only 153.


Groumf
You can't just take cast times or other random stat that is visible for you to calculate toughness reduction.

It's the primary stat multiplier that is deciding how toughness works. For fireball the equation 3s casttime = +2x int multiplier is correct, but that isn't necessarily true or transferable for other skills. Also the GCD in RoR is 1s (?).

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Grock
Posts: 663

Re: [Theorycrafing] Toughness beyond understanding

Post#14 » Sun May 03, 2020 5:41 pm

Elemint wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 10:36 am
Toughness's role in the damage formula is one of a flat reduction - exactly the opposite of str/bs/int being a flat increase on abilities. Once you understand this the damage reduction becomes clearer - heavy hitters don't get reduced by much while low damage abilities get obliterated by toughness
It should be literally the opposite :lol:
Toughness negative contribution should be modified by the same factor as your mainstat positive contribution

The main difference in how much abilities get mitigated in % comes from the fact that abilities have different base damage, so an ability with strong base and low primary stat contribution will get mitigated poorly by toughness, while ability with low base damage and high stat contribution will get mitigated more heavily

That said though, i'm pretty sure something about toughness is broken on RoR and doesn't work as intended, specifically some folks i know were testing WL's Shattering Blow and Chosen's Cleave and the numbers don't add up
Grimbur wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 10:51 am
Fireball and Boiling Blood have flat values that are pretty much the same (866 and 799) and one has a 53% reduction and the other one 28%.
Your explanation doesnt work Elemint.


Groumf
This is because Fireball is a 3 second cast and its primary stat contribution is 60% (20% * cast time), while Boling Blood is an isntacast and its contribution is probably 30% (20% * global cd), but it also has very high base damage
Although i never tested BB/WoP and there might be something else...
Last edited by Grock on Sun May 03, 2020 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Grock
Posts: 663

Re: [Theorycrafing] Toughness beyond understanding

Post#15 » Sun May 03, 2020 5:51 pm

Wiede wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 2:18 pm
You can't just take cast times or other random stat that is visible for you to calculate toughness reduction.

It's the primary stat multiplier that is deciding how toughness works. For fireball the equation 3s casttime = +2x int multiplier is correct, but that isn't necessarily true or transferable for other skills. Also the GCD in RoR is 1s (?).
Full GCD should be 1.5, with tiny extra delay for AP tick
You can cut it short at ~1.1, but the timing can be tricky and you lose AP regen
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