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Debate about why Order is how it is.

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YourDarling
Posts: 6

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#131 » Wed May 06, 2020 11:06 am

Prbably some ppl dont want to play order at my opinion cose didnt have good variants of builds. I mean all destro tanks, litteraly ALL can provide good dmg with 2h. Choosen do spirit dmg, Bork deal high physical dps, BG have one of dangerous antimag variations and UNIQUE autodetaunt. In order no one have autodetaunt. Kobs never do good dmg(ty to secrets for nerf? and buff choosens that already was pretty strong) except of losing defences. And ofc epic runefang nerf\rework that make KoBs a boy for beating. there only one good dps variation - SM. And that unique staff have almost all destro classes mb except zealots and maguses. Maras have morale drain and uniqe regen in 3d hand. That make possible tank autist builds. WE can do non physical dmg with wich brew, that Hats cannot. So WE can use defensive equip for defense autist build. That impossible to kill even if you are tank. srsly. Destro classes have too much unique staff and offensive skills that make them more playable. And more versalite. Order have BW - yeah and dats all what order can do. but noone want carry rdps. tanks in order have rly lame gameplay. They are all have deffensive playstyle. Ib cant get grudges whyle atack, only while he or his OF take dmg. and ofc choosen UNIQUE aura that damages casters with EACH tick of dot and DONT havr any CD on it. while KoBs aura have 2 or 3 sec cd on melee strikes. srsly?

So. What Adventages have order? BW? ok . And what else? useless wl in wb that have no utilityes? SH that have 1 usefull tactic for grp and mb m2 for aoe snare? And 1 neccesary engie with magnet. probably good usage for slayers. but thats all.

btw im order baised player, and playing as heal but also have other taks and heals. So i know a bit what im talking about.

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Manatikik
Posts: 1172

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#132 » Wed May 06, 2020 11:09 am

Acidic wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 9:09 am
The forum never fail to amuse.

You have:
Eyewitness testimony showing order can win with no problem
Eyewitness testimony showing order WB mix is not balanced
Eyewitness testimony showing Destro spends time making balanced WB
Eyewitness testimony showing order dps and heal potential is higher than Destro

These are from players playing both sides

Then you get conclusions that Destro classes are op from some, just hard to fathom.

If I was you I would follow the above up and try identify why there is better organization on destro, what is pulling leaders to Destro, what makes order leaders stop leading.

A few notes to add on there though:

-Undeniably Destro has more viable WB classes

-Saying 1 DPS and 1 Heal class outshine on damage = Order > Destro at both is very disingenuous especially when Fury of Da Green (and EoV but Shammy is 10x better than AM in a WB setting hands down) can outheal a WP any day of the week

-Due to the higher number of viable classes (12 vs like 5ish?) they can make more complete 2/2/2 WB more easily with their pool of players

I don't think the issue has anything to do with Destro being too strong (ofc there are some overperforming aspects, on both sides, that need to be addressed) but more that Order classes that are undesirable need something added to them to make them worth a slot. As a SW main who is on hands down the most useless class in the entire game for WB play; it feels pretty shitty to be absolutely worthless and always being a liability to my team especially when destro has no class that even approaches it.

--------------------------------------

Unrelated but holy **** people posting on forums really shows how bad of an understanding of the game they have... Like wow guys.
<Montague><Capulet>

blondgelockt
Posts: 20

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#133 » Wed May 06, 2020 11:14 am

Nekkma wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 9:26 am
1. strawman - lack of complete balance is not "completely inbalanced"
Work on reading comprehension. Nothing like that was ever implied. I never implied a "lack of complete balance", I maintain my opinion of a "complete lack of balance".
Nekkma wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 9:26 am
2. Classes/specs are good/bad at different areas of the game. Players cannot expect to bring plenty of suboptimal classes and specs and succed. This have been the case since launch 2008 and players have been "solving" it ever since.
Please. Order has more than enough classes and specs not viable for anything.

But the whole point is that Destruction has none of these problem. Suboptimal classes and class combos work well for them, even against the so-called "OP order meta". Why? Because the whole faction balancing has become broken in almost every respect and Destruction is more or less superior in every way now, a trend that was visible from the beginning. There's really no discussion about this, the numbers speak for themselves and the only surprising factor in this is parts of the community, who really really really don't want to believe it.
Nekkma wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 9:26 am
3. My argument was that order stacked the wrong classes. This whole thread is trying o answer why order stack rdps btw.
The whole thread is more about why Order feels weaker than Destro (see: thread title). Hint: It feels that way because it is that way. The answer to your argument is that order melee classes are so bad in direct comparison that only very few want to play them.

And this is my last post on this.

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Mordecaieth
Posts: 77
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Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#134 » Wed May 06, 2020 11:20 am

You guys are seriously beating a dead horse here...

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Mordecaieth
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Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#135 » Wed May 06, 2020 11:35 am

Manatikik wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 11:09 am

I don't think the issue has anything to do with Destro being too strong (ofc there are some overperforming aspects, on both sides, that need to be addressed) but more that Order classes that are undesirable need something added to them to make them worth a slot.
This is one of the few actually constructive arguments in this thread. Pay attention to this guy.

TreefAM
Posts: 383

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#136 » Wed May 06, 2020 11:44 am

YourDarling wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 11:06 am
BG have one of dangerous antimag variations and UNIQUE autodetaunt. In order no one have autodetaunt.
Lmao what are you even talking about, the detaunt is a useless skill and not a single BG will run that over anything else they have in their toolkit for city wbs.
And what "antimag" nonsense, are you talking about the outgoing heal debuff? It's a single dot that is cleansable by both AM and WP, it's pretty good if you're doing scenarios but in the cities you benefit much more from both the parry tactic and wave of scorn.

abezverkhiy
Posts: 123

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#137 » Wed May 06, 2020 11:45 am

blondgelockt wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 9:11 am
Live was NEVER as bad balance-wise. Order WAS noticably weaker than Destro overall already, but not even close to the level we have seen on RoR.
Imo you’re badmouthing our developers for no reason. They are doing terrific job and improved balance where they could. Of course there will always be things to tweak but I disagree with you on balancing point - I played Order on Badlands and a couple of other servers and I remember well those moments when I couldn’t play RvR because all was red, we constantly had AAO and they tore us apart as soon as they saw us. We don’t have this in RoR.

I don’t know why we lose cities more often. Or have dpd healers (D also have them). Maybe it is about D’s image of baddies attractive to many or greater number of nolifers playing D or more unattentive/inexperienced O players. I don’t know. I just love the game the way it is cause there is no better one.
Valknutt WP, Lochdhu IB, Tamdhu SL, Glenturret ENG, Vanhelsen WH

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Wam
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Posts: 686

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#138 » Wed May 06, 2020 11:50 am

Mordecaieth wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 11:35 am
Manatikik wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 11:09 am

I don't think the issue has anything to do with Destro being too strong (ofc there are some overperforming aspects, on both sides, that need to be addressed) but more that Order classes that are undesirable need something added to them to make them worth a slot.
This is one of the few actually constructive arguments in this thread. Pay attention to this guy.
I think people can remove their realm bias and agree that

Magus/Engi Welf/WH and SW need some fine tuning and love more than any other classes to be fair

The pet mechanic on magus/engi and how stationary they are

Welf/WH aoe nerf

SW being outshined by its rival order DPS makes it lack a role/purpose (hard for it to compete with BW/SL)

Then it will be down to organisational issues... I think its more composition based than anything, bringing those other classes up (mentioned above) instead of tearing some down can only be a good thing
Wamizzle Guild Leader [TUP]
Wamizzle Guild Leader [The Unlikely Plan]

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Mordecaieth
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Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#139 » Wed May 06, 2020 12:03 pm

Wam wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 11:50 am

I think people can remove their realm bias and agree that

Magus/Engi Welf/WH and SW need some fine tuning and love more than any other classes to be fair
Absolutely. I wish the forum had up votes and down votes.

Draugris
Posts: 296

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#140 » Wed May 06, 2020 12:07 pm

Regarding Tanks, for me, it´s mainly the visuals on order side that turn me off. They simply look stupid imo, maybe with a small exception of the IB but I am not a big dwarf fan either. Regarding the "order is..." vs "destro is..." discussion, I don´t know. I play on both sides and I have equally horrible and fun times here and there. Also, the chat discussions are the same, each side is accusing the other side of the exact same things, sometimes it´s hilarious tbh. I think most people are playing destro and order so players are the same anyways.
Live: Carroburg -> Santorro (WH), The first Guard (TfG)

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