Debate about why Order is how it is.

[Omegus]

To collect some real numbers about career representation on both sides I have been collecting data from RvR now for the past 3 days. The methodology is that I scan active RvR zones with the ZonePop addon (not T1). Each scan is done with a few hours between and never the same zone twice in a row. So far I am up to 15 scans. Here are the results: https://imgur.com/a/JPcwnbV

Very nice data . Please can you the Y/vertical axis in the same scale for both charts so it's easier to compare cross-faction at a glance?

[Zaxxond]

Order is the way it is because of OP AoE BW that needs to be nerfed.

Nerf AoE BW and see the Order start playing MDPS.

[traja7]

To collect some real numbers about career representation on both sides I have been collecting data from RvR now for the past 3 days. The methodology is that I scan active RvR zones with the ZonePop addon (not T1). Each scan is done with a few hours between and never the same zone twice in a row. So far I am up to 15 scans. Here are the results: https://imgur.com/a/JPcwnbV

Very nice data . Please can you the Y/vertical axis in the same scale for both charts so it's easier to compare cross-faction at a glance?

Sure. Also slightly updated numbers with 17 total scans: https://imgur.com/a/liPSgql

[Omegus]

To collect some real numbers about career representation on both sides I have been collecting data from RvR now for the past 3 days. The methodology is that I scan active RvR zones with the ZonePop addon (not T1). Each scan is done with a few hours between and never the same zone twice in a row. So far I am up to 15 scans. Here are the results: https://imgur.com/a/JPcwnbV

Very nice data . Please can you the Y/vertical axis in the same scale for both charts so it's easier to compare cross-faction at a glance?

Sure. Also slightly updated numbers with 17 total scans: https://imgur.com/a/liPSgql

Thank you. Turns out a tactic that allows them to pump out an additional 20% healing on top of the Knight and RP buffs results in a popular healer...

[DiMakss]

New meta, boys - u have no tanks? NO problem, u have engis! Order won all 3 stages, vs good destro pug rr70+
https://imgur.com/O8wAieW

[wonshot]

Order is the way it is because of OP AoE BW that needs to be nerfed.

Nerf AoE BW and see the Order start playing MDPS.

Will you roll a Tank, MDPS or healer when aoe BW gets nerfed? or how come you play a rdps (in singletarget spec) on Order?
Following your logic, the aoe spec of BW is overshadowing your own built and other classes, but yet you are on a ranged dps archtype like myself. Are tanks not appealing for you? (topic)

Expecting a serious reply from you is probably as naive, as seeing you perform well in that city-instance we shared a couple of week ago
But since you didnt get too much time typing "zaxxed" in there, here spend the time now and drop some knowledge on us about how aoe bw is keeping Order in headlock

[videogamer]

To collect some real numbers about career representation on both sides I have been collecting data from RvR now for the past 3 days. The methodology is that I scan active RvR zones with the ZonePop addon (not T1). Each scan is done with a few hours between and never the same zone twice in a row. So far I am up to 15 scans. Here are the results: https://imgur.com/a/JPcwnbV

Very nice data . Please can you the Y/vertical axis in the same scale for both charts so it's easier to compare cross-faction at a glance?

Sure. Also slightly updated numbers with 17 total scans: https://imgur.com/a/liPSgql

Well that's kind of interesting. I wonder if you were able to get city population data as well as I'd expect more melee classes to hang out doing scenarios and what not, especially a class like Blackguard which really doesn't need to step foot in RvR very much.



I used a rough estimation of your data to gauge class distribution so it's not perfectly accurate. With 12 classes per faction an 8% distribution is ideal, however you would want more healers and tanks to compensate for double the amount of DPS classes so a more ideal number would be 5.5% for DPS classes and 11% for tanks and healers (obviously that's never going to happen though). I guess the biggest take away from this is that:

• Order have a significant tank problem (no surprise here) however the tanks are relatively evenly distributed compared with Destruction where Blackguard is very under represented.

• DPS distribution seems to be relatively even on both sides, the major outlier being Squig Herder with it's viable melee spec possibly being the only thing skewing the numbers and perception that Destruction have more melee (outside of having more tanks) and the perception that Order have more ranged (which they do if you assume most SH are melee spec).

• AM is clearly the most unpopular healer and needs significant help.

• SW needs significant help and/or a melee DPS spec that is as viable as mSH.

• WP is outrageously popular.

• Zealot is slightly under represented (so if you wanna play a healer on Destro play this).

• WP, Chosen, BOrc, WL, Engineer and Shaman are significantly more represented than their mirror equivalents however Squig Herder takes the cake when compared with SW.

Based on this I would say nerf mSH and buff it's ranged spec, or change SW enough to be equivalent in viability to SH, however if you do the latter you still have a ranged problem on Order just because of how many Squig Herders are on Destruction, you would need a lot of those Engineers/Bright Wizards to reroll Shadow Warrior. Buff Order tanks across the board or give some sort of significant visual change/improvement to get people to play them. These would probably be the best 2 changes the developers could make however without city population data all this might be wrong, who knows, maybe theres 500 Shadow Warriors lurking in the streets of Aldorf silently queuing away at Scenarios because it sure feels like they're everywhere despite apparently being the most unpopular class in RvR.

[Telen]

AM doesnt need significant help. It just needs a mechanic that works.

You could balance the healers overnight by making KI and DM cost mechanic points instead of WP/DoK practically having 2 action point pools, this change only came about from soloers moaning about not being able to heal while kited in a group game, and increasing gheal speed to 2.5s (with proportional hps) like the other healers.

[Vayra]

AM doesnt need significant help. It just needs a mechanic that works.

You could balance the healers overnight by making KI and DM cost mechanic points instead of WP/DoK practically having 2 action point pools and increasing gheal speed to 2.5s (with proportional hps) like the other healers.

Or how about not? DoK/WP have faster (and weaker) gheals as compensation for having to be closer to the action and not getting ranged damage options. Making KI/DM use resource idc, we didn't have that on live and did just fine with healing. But our group heal needs to stay exactly like it is unless we get 100ft range on our attacks as well.

[Telen]

Or how about not? DoK/WP have faster (and weaker) gheals as compensation for having to be closer to the action and not getting ranged damage options.

They dont get closer to the action though do they thats the problem. They play as backline healer with all these advantages because they were originally designed as a front line healer. Thats why they overperform and are by far the most played class. That heal was brought in later because they were being played as backline and running out of mechanic points but they retained all the benefits. Either make the heal the same as backline healers as thats how most play them or reduce the range.

But hey I get it if I played the most played class that was the best of its archetype I might not want balance either tbh.