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Debate about why Order is how it is.

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emiliorv
Posts: 416

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#481 » Mon May 25, 2020 7:19 am

Omegus wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:59 pm
Drewsephy wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 7:47 pm
Yes order is great at defending forts.... who cares.
Almost everybody when not spending the hour in the city every 1-2 days. The majority of the time is spent fighting over keeps and forts, meaning the majority of the time destro are having a **** time. Not everyone is RR70 and in full invader ready to farm Sovereign.
I wonder why this kind of topics come up after city was implemented and no one said anything when forts was "endgame content"...everything was fine when you had the advantage getting endgame gear...

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DiMakss
Posts: 49

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#482 » Mon May 25, 2020 11:48 am

emiliorv wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 7:19 am
and no one said anything
Did you personally ask everyone?

emiliorv
Posts: 416

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#483 » Mon May 25, 2020 12:04 pm

DiMakss wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 11:48 am
emiliorv wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 7:19 am
and no one said anything
Did you personally ask everyone?
sure, to everyone personally one by one...except trolls ofc.

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normanis
Posts: 547
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Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#484 » Mon May 25, 2020 2:48 pm

its good end game is city siege and after that is again t2/3/4, its mean nomore new gear and bigger gap between gears.
i remember posts 3 years ago when was said there will be no op gear ingame and gear gap will be lesss than it was on live. ( and i see nerfed ruin/anni) . and ppl played this game , than starts mess with white lions and asw msquigs and ppl left game. good there is some youtubers who have million followers that he makes game again live.
this is race what faction will be faster geared in endgame gear to dominate rvr . i whant to say harsh words for those on order who gived up keeps for forts and geared destro in better gear. not talking about - lets push fort (than he and his allies xrealm to ather realm and defend) it was when forts was open for all. when forts was realeased last year january than there shoudbe already lockout timer about your ip. i am telling this because its realm wide in first gear up enemy and than come here and complain nerf this nerf that. if its end game gear , as a my realm biased i would defend till last breath to not allow gear up my enemy. they need work for it not just zerg . zerg now is game if u dont zerg u should check brains to psyholog. 24 aoe only make ppl more zerg. ( because i cant leave wc if 3-4 ally wbs dont follow us. and after 1 defeat call tham again). order try 1 wb vs 1 + wb all time ( atleast gloruous death). even mongols didnt zerged so much than destro this days.
now clases who have big aoe = favour . tanks already was weakpoint for order after heavy kobs nerf.
p.s i didnt drink to write this all. ;-)

Omegus
Posts: 347

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#485 » Mon May 25, 2020 5:43 pm

normanis wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 2:48 pm
gear gap will be lesss than it was on live. ( and i see nerfed ruin/anni) . and ppl played this game , than starts mess with white lions and asw msquigs and ppl left game. good there is some youtubers who have million followers that he makes game again live.
The potential of those 3 classes is nothing to do with gear, and the gear gap is faaaaar lower than it is on live.
Zomega: RR8x Zealot
Addons: CityFix v1.0

Omegus
Posts: 347

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#486 » Mon May 25, 2020 5:46 pm

Any thoughts on this to help solve some of the issues? Obviously won't solve it completely but it could help: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=38668
Zomega: RR8x Zealot
Addons: CityFix v1.0

raistomen
Posts: 73

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#487 » Mon May 25, 2020 5:53 pm

My two coppers:

Order have some of the best classes hands down. But as people have mentioned they don't get played/picked. They also have some gimpish classes (not as much as some people think but still underperform.

I know SC isn't the same as city, but you can pretty much look at teams and see which is gona win. Forts are a little different , since range finally gets to shine.

Tge question is , how do we move from here. Buff all the other order classes and watch destro get shitstomped in every field? Or maybe Buff all the classes so they are more or less on the same line as WL on both sides. I don't think Order realize just how OP some of their classes are unless they played both sides. Its just, they don't play those classes that much (other then WL maybe will see a surge in the next couple of months).

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Greenbeast
Posts: 278

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#488 » Mon May 25, 2020 5:53 pm

Jeliel80 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 5:06 pm
You trying to convince yourself of something? :D
Destro has a huge morale advantage that makes it way easier to organize and play on that side.
Period.

Against proper premade (and not) you're getting perma M2 rotated and perma 25% HD from chosens, denying the so called raw dmg/heal advantages order is supposed to have.

Sure if you're really organized you can cheese AM pumps and solar flare to make it a game. but is so much easier on destro.

So let's stop pretending that the game is balanced, because it isn't... it slowly creeped out in the current situation, bit by bit.

Of course doesn't mean you can't do well if properly organized on order, but that isn't the point...
You've forgotten 30% self healing buff on WP and 15% healing buff on the kotbs and the fact that you can run 15% outgoing heall debuff on Kotbs. So no a single Chosen aura is t disabling your potential healing.
As for M2 every tank that uses M2 can't bomb you. Since good and not Warbands run 2h tanks they will be out of sinc or a warband must wait for them. Most of them will use raze that can be interrupted or syphoned.
In 2018-2019 any destro warband that would go out without a dps zealot and marauder would have been burned to ashes with morale drop of 7 bws. I haven't seen you complaining. You've just played the meta with overstacking bws and destruction was forced to get an unpopular DPS zealot and bring a couple of marauders to be able to compete.
You need an AM. It's hard to find but it's meta.

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Jeliel80
Posts: 75

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#489 » Mon May 25, 2020 7:02 pm

First of all it's 20% (exalted defenses) and you have to dodge/disrupt to make it proc (so obviously it's not even remotely up all the time, and if destro is running mostly mdps comp, never at all), kotbs is outgoing hd which sucks, so yeah chosen completely nullifies order advantages.

m2 bellows, will be cicled by chosens only ofc, blorcs will use m3, so I don't get your point.

Yes, I always complained about the huge morale advantage destro has, it's certainly nothing new and not related to just city, the fact that organized destro wb took their time to realize it is beyond the point.

Even with AM pumping solar flare (and certainly not just 1 AM, that will take ages) it's not even remotely enough to compensate the morale game, but ofc it helps.

But don't worry, we'll go destro like everybody else did, let's see how long the server lasts. :D
http://www.seventhlegion.net/
Jeliell - RP 85
Jel - WP 83
Jelyel - DoK 7x

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kmark101
Posts: 326

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#490 » Mon May 25, 2020 7:44 pm

raistomen wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 5:53 pm
Order have some of the best classes hands down. But as people have mentioned they don't get played/picked. They also have some gimpish classes (not as much as some people think but still underperform.

Completely irrelevant. End game battles are decided on morales, all these +% healing babbles doesnt mean anything, you can't profit from them when morale drop happens... that's the whole basic idea and design of morale drops. If one side has group pump spam and the other side has a ST pump every 2s, that does not sound balanced in any environment. Plus add the destro TANK self pumps, I mean wtf game design is that... so ppl can talk about class balances all day long, it doesn't really matter. Here, devs even gave the BW self pump to sorc at some point, cause self pumping BWs were too op and it needed to be mirrored to "make sorcs viable"... yet we don't see the same effort with order tanks, who already miles behind in regular damage and debuff potential, but also on the morale game. Destro having more tanks just multiplicating this issue.
Gryyw - Ironbreaker

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