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Debate about why Order is how it is.

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DiMakss
Posts: 50

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#551 » Wed May 27, 2020 11:28 am

Why do people playing pug talk about moral drop? I win 4/5, and we never even try to organize the moral drop. The moral drop decides that only in the top premades battles. Better start playing tanks, playing against 3 tanks is just ridiculous.

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M0rw47h
Posts: 431

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#552 » Wed May 27, 2020 11:30 am

DiMakss wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 11:28 am
Why do people playing pug talk about moral drop? I win 4/5, and we never even try to organize the moral drop. The moral drop decides that only in the top premades battles. Better start playing tanks, playing against 3 tanks is just ridiculous.
Because majority of people writing here ain't playing in PUGs at all.
Anathae [KotBS] / Anathea [WP] ( and couple others )
former Anathae [Zealot]

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DiMakss
Posts: 50

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#553 » Wed May 27, 2020 12:13 pm

M0rw47h wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 11:30 am
In this game there are 3-4 guilds on each side, which can set up the full composition. The remaining 10-20 is a pug. The 3-4 siege order wins, even more. I can conclude that the balance is fine, since the rest is just an absurd pug without tanks. The topic can be closed, thanks.

PS
Apparently, these 3-4 order wb believe that they must win EVERY siege, which, of course, is not so. So all this discussion about balance is just a complex of a couple of specific people whom you praised the “majority”.

Vladthedad
Posts: 12

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#554 » Wed May 27, 2020 12:24 pm

M0rw47h wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 7:29 am
Wam wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 7:13 am
Order 7 - 7 Destro

Order OP ... nerf nerf :roll: 8-)

If destro was so op according to some posters how can something like this happen? destro getting outskilled en mass? or the balance is alot closer than people make it out to be and maybe a couple more destro premades was sleeping :twisted:
It's kinda funny you take early morning as evidence, when there is mostly PUG vs PUG gameplay at those hours (usualy PUGs can't use their tools properly), while yday mid day was like 5-12 for Destro.
Surely that proves the point then that it is not the classes that hugely unbalanced, but that Destro run more pre-mades and are a bit more organised?

If early morning pug v pug where as you say they can't use their tools properly yet end in a draw, it points to a faction difference not to a class difference.
Barbaphus - Chosen - TUP

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M0rw47h
Posts: 431

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#555 » Wed May 27, 2020 1:20 pm

Vladthedad wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 12:24 pm
M0rw47h wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 7:29 am
Wam wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 7:13 am
Order 7 - 7 Destro

Order OP ... nerf nerf :roll: 8-)

If destro was so op according to some posters how can something like this happen? destro getting outskilled en mass? or the balance is alot closer than people make it out to be and maybe a couple more destro premades was sleeping :twisted:
It's kinda funny you take early morning as evidence, when there is mostly PUG vs PUG gameplay at those hours (usualy PUGs can't use their tools properly), while yday mid day was like 5-12 for Destro.
Surely that proves the point then that it is not the classes that hugely unbalanced, but that Destro run more pre-mades and are a bit more organised?

If early morning pug v pug where as you say they can't use their tools properly yet end in a draw, it points to a faction difference not to a class difference.
Surely it proves NOTHING.
If you get 50 samples saying A > B, and 3 samples saying B > A, then you rather consider those 3 samples as deviation rather proof for anything.
Anathae [KotBS] / Anathea [WP] ( and couple others )
former Anathae [Zealot]

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Greenbeast
Posts: 278

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#556 » Wed May 27, 2020 1:52 pm

Mordd wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 1:49 am
Greenbeast wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 1:16 pm
Mordd wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 11:51 pm


Im hit with the moral drain pretty much every city Ive been in.
if the moral drain is so useless you would be good with changing it to something else or give it to order then.
I haven't said it's useless I've said it gimp your damage to the point that it isn't worth taking if you run it.
And why do you need it on order side when you have a bright wizzard with self pump + burning head M4?
Order win morale game in the longer fights because of solar flare and burning head but indeed you need to draft a warband composition for it.
You have morale drain on order side - WH, Solare Flare and Burning head + SOV 8p bonus.
Try to reconsider your idea of blobing and stacking together because it isn't working that good in cities. It event don't work in orvr anymore.
First off its in the right tree, the same tree as the aoe channel and aoe knockdown.
So you think its ok if one of our classes can get moral, its all good.... really.
Im not sure what part you dont get that we get drained and dont get to M4 without a planed pump. Another example of a no thought 0 effort ability destro has that is game changing and takes multiple order classes working together to try and counter if they even live that long.
you are really trying to compare a 10 sec cooldown for 125, to 25% chance on every hit for a drain of 250, thrown in a moral 4 and 8 piece sov... lmao if we had 8 piece sov we dont need city.
Destro is the blob realm not order.
Try your lame arguments elsewhere.
Marauder has been changed. The tactic in the right tree that used to be a 25% chance of losing 250 MP that has been changed to a % to stop morale gain. This tactic isn't working right now.
The character builder on RoR hasn't been updated for a while.
The only morale drain tool that marauder have is Wave of Terror from the middle tree and it has been changed to acutally steal morale points now. To use it marauder have to change stance and losing his survivability + can't use AOE abilities from the right tree for a period of time. You can indeed use this spec but the marauder will not do any damage.
If you don't believe me log into the game and look marauders skill trees.
One Solar flare will prevent NINE enemy players from dropping morale. If all black orcs run M3 1200 that has 30ft range destro have to blob or run together that makes it very easy to predict and actually counter.

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Greenbeast
Posts: 278

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#557 » Wed May 27, 2020 1:54 pm

Jeliel80 wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 10:16 am
In 4 months order got 3 draws (2 IC 1 Alt) and lost everything else, a few with close scores, but most of them overwhelmingly so.

Now things could change cause many main toons (and alts) on destro are completely geared up (a couple of those draws are pretty recent) and server pop gone down a lot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBIpKZDTcMk
Do you see the damage on the warband? Your warband was under constant M2 rotations. Please don't tell me that you don't have a superior raw damage :D
Fights were very close if you would have had Solar Flare you would have won some of them by the way. And you almost wiped us with your morale drop as well.

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carlos
Posts: 193

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#558 » Wed May 27, 2020 2:03 pm

M0rw47h wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 1:20 pm
Vladthedad wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 12:24 pm
M0rw47h wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 7:29 am


It's kinda funny you take early morning as evidence, when there is mostly PUG vs PUG gameplay at those hours (usualy PUGs can't use their tools properly), while yday mid day was like 5-12 for Destro.
Surely that proves the point then that it is not the classes that hugely unbalanced, but that Destro run more pre-mades and are a bit more organised?

If early morning pug v pug where as you say they can't use their tools properly yet end in a draw, it points to a faction difference not to a class difference.
Surely it proves NOTHING.
If you get 50 samples saying A > B, and 3 samples saying B > A, then you rather consider those 3 samples as deviation rather proof for anything.
When one side have self pump on the majority of viable classes it's kinda wanky and quite frankly... off.
When the same side also have one of the main viable dd class with self pump while not even have to squat, then you know it's really messed up.
Igknight - Bene Tleilax

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Jeliel80
Posts: 75

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#559 » Wed May 27, 2020 2:27 pm

Greenbeast wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 1:54 pm
Jeliel80 wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 10:16 am
In 4 months order got 3 draws (2 IC 1 Alt) and lost everything else, a few with close scores, but most of them overwhelmingly so.

Now things could change cause many main toons (and alts) on destro are completely geared up (a couple of those draws are pretty recent) and server pop gone down a lot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBIpKZDTcMk
Do you see the damage on the warband? Your warband was under constant M2 rotations. Please don't tell me that you don't have a superior raw damage :D
Fights were very close if you would have had Solar Flare you would have won some of them by the way. And you almost wiped us with your morale drop as well.
You linked a video about a city where top damage in all stages were destro...
I can send you the screenshots if you want.

The famous Solar Flare, a M4 growing from tress, that requires a dedicated setup with multiple AMs, to just have a chance, yeah a chance, to have a fight, if hitting decent targets (9 targets)...
The same Solar Flare that devs will have nerfed (in the tank overhaul morale thread) and MIRRORED to destro (on black guard).

That shows exactly the kinda of changes that have been piling up over the years skewing the balance of the game in one single direction.

Don't worry though, we're coming to the proper side. :D
http://www.seventhlegion.net/
Jeliell - RP 85
Jel - WP 83
Jelyel - DoK 7x

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Greenbeast
Posts: 278

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#560 » Wed May 27, 2020 2:42 pm

Jeliel80 wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 2:27 pm
Greenbeast wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 1:54 pm
Jeliel80 wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 10:16 am
In 4 months order got 3 draws (2 IC 1 Alt) and lost everything else, a few with close scores, but most of them overwhelmingly so.

Now things could change cause many main toons (and alts) on destro are completely geared up (a couple of those draws are pretty recent) and server pop gone down a lot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBIpKZDTcMk
Do you see the damage on the warband? Your warband was under constant M2 rotations. Please don't tell me that you don't have a superior raw damage :D
Fights were very close if you would have had Solar Flare you would have won some of them by the way. And you almost wiped us with your morale drop as well.
You linked a video about a city where top damage in all stages were destro...
I can send you the screenshots if you want.

The famous Solar Flare, a M4 growing from tress, that requires a dedicated setup with multiple AMs, to just have a chance, yeah a chance, to have a fight, if hitting decent targets (9 targets)...
The same Solar Flare that devs will have nerfed (in the tank overhaul morale thread) and MIRRORED to destro (on black guard).

That shows exactly the kinda of changes that have been piling up over the years skewing the balance of the game in one single direction.

Don't worry though, we're coming to the proper side. :D
Ah no problems I can help you
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... yz_039.jpg
Top two damage dealers were champions in the last stage. In first two stages damage distribution was even.
I think that TUP and Simtex are aliens that can use it. They used one AM for that and it worked. It surely requires 4 AM's to pump 1 knight to m4 in 30 seconds and it surely requires your melee train to stay afk hugging each other in the center of a square waiting patiently to be killed with morales. Ah wait you can kill enemy dps with your damage and desync emenmy morale drop anyway or use stagers/puddles/slows and kite if you see enemy going for a morale bomb...but who could have thought about it.

In this city we were using morales mainly when 2h tanks got m3 since you were very good in killing our sorcs. So both of our warbands had morales. Some fights were so overextended that even your slayers must have had M4.

You can try to go destro indeed. I don't think that it will help you fighting any premades tho.

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