Debate about why Order is how it is.

[K13R]

Good stuff on both sides as a primary Order the issue with Order is the over-representation of the engineer class which is understandable when it excels at 95% of the oRVR game which is standard keeps and pirate ship at BO/WC/Bridge

[DiMakss]

Here we talk a lot about buffs sw, ib and other less popular classes, but for some reason we are not talking about nerfs. Destro is already experiencing enormous difficulties in the RVR and forts, and if you buff these classes (which is necessary), you can immediately open the endless queue for siege ic. So let's discuss the nerf rvr trinity - slayer, bw, engi.

[lyncher12]

i see MAYBE 1 engineer in the cities i've lost playing order, its definitely not the problem guys

[M0rw47h]

Good stuff on both sides as a primary Order the issue with Order is the over-representation of the engineer class which is understandable when it excels at 95% of the oRVR game which is standard keeps and pirate ship at BO/WC/Bridge

How so? Pew pewing at random people is definition of being useless.

[Kellanved]

i see MAYBE 1 engineer in the cities i've lost playing order, its definitely not the problem guys

Lucky. I seen multiple city siege from both sides and everytime order had more then 2-3 engis it was a order lose. Damn. I even seen few times 6-7 engis in instance. I was in one on mine engi. Same was with 4+ SW stack.

[nuadarstark]

I've seen 12 mans on order that get a stack of 6 WHs on queueing. Fun times.

[normanis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GJtT213cdk

[normanis]

destro has more city wins than order. here we see how well balanced is endgame and clases.

Balance hardly has anything to do with win rates.

Last week i did a city on order side. And i noticed a few things contributing why destro wins more cities.

Biggest factor is /5 LFG spam. On destro side as soon as city hits the /5 scroll is real. Lots of players forming groups looking for comp set ups and specific classes. The chat flys by so fast you can hardly read it. You might not win every time you make a group instead of leaving it up the RNG gods and solo que but your chances go up if you at least have at least a 2/2/2 set up for a 6man bare minimum.

Order side /5 LFG for cities is not nearly as active. Very few compared to destro side /5. But yet we still have 15+ instances running probably closer to 20+. Was very sad to not see more forming groups. So i would imagine most of order that is going in cities outside of full guild 24 man wbs are just hoping RNG gets them a good instance. I didn't even really see small man groups trying to form like 6 man or 12 or 18 that i see a lot of on destro side. I attempted to find a grp/wb on my WP but didn't get one so i attempted to solo que it.

Icing on the cake i get in a city on my WP and before it even starts we already have one downer saying they are just there to get 3 medals. That attitude is cancer, hadn't even been steam rolled once the timer was still ticking down to start the instance. We happened to be pug on pug in city and we won 3-0.

I think half the problem with order is just plain terrible attitudes. Players don't want to make groups, and accept defeat before anything has started. This has nothing to do with balance.

maby because win rate is lower for order becaus of sw? in morning legolass folowers are less order wins something. byt when legolass folowers login they are supporting team for destro to claim free rr and wins. if asw would be good same as msqug . this conversation will not be uped and uped .

[K13R]

destro has more city wins than order. here we see how well balanced is endgame and clases.

Balance hardly has anything to do with win rates.

Last week i did a city on order side. And i noticed a few things contributing why destro wins more cities.

Biggest factor is /5 LFG spam. On destro side as soon as city hits the /5 scroll is real. Lots of players forming groups looking for comp set ups and specific classes. The chat flys by so fast you can hardly read it. You might not win every time you make a group instead of leaving it up the RNG gods and solo que but your chances go up if you at least have at least a 2/2/2 set up for a 6man bare minimum.

Order side /5 LFG for cities is not nearly as active. Very few compared to destro side /5. But yet we still have 15+ instances running probably closer to 20+. Was very sad to not see more forming groups. So i would imagine most of order that is going in cities outside of full guild 24 man wbs are just hoping RNG gets them a good instance. I didn't even really see small man groups trying to form like 6 man or 12 or 18 that i see a lot of on destro side. I attempted to find a grp/wb on my WP but didn't get one so i attempted to solo que it.

Icing on the cake i get in a city on my WP and before it even starts we already have one downer saying they are just there to get 3 medals. That attitude is cancer, hadn't even been steam rolled once the timer was still ticking down to start the instance. We happened to be pug on pug in city and we won 3-0.

I think half the problem with order is just plain terrible attitudes. Players don't want to make groups, and accept defeat before anything has started. This has nothing to do with balance.

maby because win rate is lower for order becaus of sw? in morning legolass folowers are less order wins something. byt when legolass folowers login they are supporting team for destro to claim free rr and wins. if asw would be good same as msqug . this conversation will not be uped and uped .

As someone that has both it not even in the same league Asw should be subbed for WL/SL in almost every instance, MSH is a g dam monster its an unholy love child between WL and SL.

[Bosli]

IDK you seem pretty triggered for being the bastion of destro coordination and supreme skill. My /5 is just that - /5. Theres typically 4-6 guildies that come then i /5 to fill the spots; I make a new throwaway discord every city and try to go for the same 2/2/2 class setup that i usually go for; so there goes any of your credibility for anything else if this is your "100% certain" statement. Maybe you should sit down, shut your mouth, and just enjoy the game if all you have to say is nonesense and puffery.

First, I don't know where I said that my warband is anywhere near the strongest. I said that order seems to cry about ours the most, for whatever reason that is I'm not sure of. But I have heard as much from people on their order toons, seen chat screenshots and even read it on order discords public channels. As well as in some forum posts.
Then, if you manage to win 90% of your matches with an almost full /5 warband against destro premades, this either makes you the best warband leader on the entire server by far, or order isn't as weak as everyone always claims they are.
Also, if you go for the exact same setup every single time (and take players you have seen perform well over just any random /5, probably with a high RR required too - let's be real, this is how it is), this means that your "pug warband" is more premade than the "destro premades" sometimes are. Because as I said, we take whoever we have and don't go for any "perfect setup" ****. Even the ones we take from /5 we usually only go for the simple difference of tanks, aoe mdps, heals. We might have one more group of "core players" that we often run with, but there is still a high fluctuation as well as setup randomness.

Obviously I can't deny that most of the players we take from our alliance usually have played enough city sieges (I guess everyone has done much more than a dozen, with some like myself having played probably like 80%+ of all city sieges that happened so far) to know what is expected of them in terms of teamplay. It is a big pool of players with decent experience and skill, but it is still more or less randomly scrambled together every city siege into 2 to 6 warbands. To give you a bit of an idea what I mean, our alliance numbers after a random city siege: