Any chance for pugs vs pugs in Cities?

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IAko
Posts: 19

Re: Any chance for pugs vs pugs in Cities?

Post#71 » Wed May 20, 2020 1:03 pm

Not read all pages so sorry if already covered. I'd rather see the class restriction from ranked scenarios be brought into cities so even when queuing solo you end up in a 2-2-2 group. This won't be popular with all though because any solution to this will upset some people, for me though this would be better than the current situation.

Would be less instances for a while though as order would need to class shift towards tanks a bit, probably end up similar though as all the new tanks will likely be dps spec ;)

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K13R
Posts: 100

Re: Any chance for pugs vs pugs in Cities?

Post#72 » Wed May 20, 2020 1:18 pm

Draugris wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 12:16 pm
pepperoni420 wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:42 am
Competitive 24v24 instanced based pvp makes no sense as the culmination of the ORVR campaign.
Cities are not competitive as they are now and that´s the whole problem in this discussion. The only true competitive mode in this game is maybe 6vs6 premade ranked scenarios. As long as a 24 premade wb in a city gets matched vs a 24 pug wb, sorry this is probably the most casual mode ever. I see a lot of people are not arguing in good faith and instead are protecting only what benefits them. If Cities are really this glorified PvP endgame, OK, then why not disabling queueing unless you are a full 24 man/woman/anything between Warband? Then everybody is forced to think about who and what to bring. The only problems left then is that certain classes will never set a foot in cities with a class balance that´s like "Bring the class, not the player", should be the other way around.
And Hence why the 6 v 6 premade ranked sits empty people say they want balance they don't they want easy wins and anything the threatens those easy wins needs to be shot down, the adage that you must git gud is fine till it comes at their expense and currently at scale several of order's classes underperform and it seems destro is intent is to nerf the ones that do. Hence the constant WL whine threads which are filled with order saying Git gud or get a group to kill a WL

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Parallell86
Posts: 70

Re: Any chance for pugs vs pugs in Cities?

Post#73 » Wed May 20, 2020 1:23 pm

CountTalabecland wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 2:20 pm
I think the “its endgame so you should grp” argument falls apart when bringing an organized warband often turns into pulverizing pugs and PvE for free royals crests. Its endgame content so shouldn’t you actually be challenged?

I think PuG/Organized needs to be separated or ability to queque PuG/solo needs to be removed. Most of the royals I have come from times where we just murdered the other side and I got to free dps for an hour and profit while not even trying.

The problem is that most city matches are just slaughters one way or the other with no real challenge after the first fight at mid decides who is stronger.
Its not going to solve all problems, maybe solve yours and create another problem for different people. So for example, one organised guild who rally 2 groups get matched up with 1 or 2 other premades and count as organised warband, gets sent into a full 24 man guild wb instance and gets hammered due to communication or perhaps plain just compositions. Now, is it rewarding for these smaller premades to group up you think? No, they will make a post in this very forum about the matchmaking being bullocks. You cant fix that scenario else but going back, but YOU can step up your gaming and perhaps join the semi-hardcore guilds and want more from your gameplay.

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Nekkma
Posts: 463

Re: Any chance for pugs vs pugs in Cities?

Post#74 » Wed May 20, 2020 1:30 pm

Draugris wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 12:16 pm
The only problems left then is that certain classes will never set a foot in cities with a class balance that´s like "Bring the class, not the player", should be the other way around.
Good players will always get invited to groups regardless of class (perhaps not in the most tryhard groups but if they are good they will find groups). For the avarage players you always have guilds where you can join groups for social reasons alone (within reason ofc, 2/2/2 set up etc).

Of course, if you are a player of avarage skill (or below), playing a sub optimal class, refusing to respec and not in a guild/alliance/discord you will have a hard time finding a group that wants you. However, I would argue that that is as it should be.
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Vayra
Posts: 524

Re: Any chance for pugs vs pugs in Cities?

Post#75 » Wed May 20, 2020 1:33 pm

Draugris wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 12:16 pm
pepperoni420 wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:42 am
Competitive 24v24 instanced based pvp makes no sense as the culmination of the ORVR campaign.
The only problems left then is that certain classes will never set a foot in cities with a class balance that´s like "Bring the class, not the player", should be the other way around.
If I can get invited to warbands for city as a dps dok, you can find a warband as any other class with their best spec.
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Detangler
Posts: 328

Re: Any chance for pugs vs pugs in Cities?

Post#76 » Wed May 20, 2020 2:25 pm

The only real city viability discrepancy between the two sides is the class mirrors for melee squig vs. shadow warrior. The the rest of the mirrored classes otherwise line up pretty well as the ones where you want/don't want more than 1 max (example: witch hunter/witch elf, engineer/magus, AM/ Shaman, etc.). List one Order class that you don't really want a lot of, destro has the same.

The real problem with Order is that some of the most desired classes (tanks) are also some of the least played. There was a recent forum thread where some smart people were logging class numbers for each side and taking larger and larger sample sets. Tanks were some of the least played on Order side while Engineers were some of the most popular. This only inflates the discrepancy between the sides and leads to false conclusions about how badly outclassed Order is compared to Destro because their Order comp is chock full of leftover suboptimal classes, when the organized Order players have no troubles winning cities.
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Draugris
Posts: 252

Re: Any chance for pugs vs pugs in Cities?

Post#77 » Wed May 20, 2020 2:37 pm

K13R wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 1:18 pm
And Hence why the 6 v 6 premade ranked sits empty people say they want balance they don't they want easy wins and anything the threatens those easy wins needs to be shot down, the adage that you must git gud is fine till it comes at their expense and currently at scale several of order's classes underperform and it seems destro is intent is to nerf the ones that do. Hence the constant WL whine threads which are filled with order saying Git gud or get a group to kill a WL
Yep i have the same impression reading this thread with the only addition that there are people with this mindset on either faction posting here.
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Josewales
Posts: 35

Re: Any chance for pugs vs pugs in Cities?

Post#78 » Fri May 22, 2020 11:33 am

I don't think pugs are the problem. Bust up the meta melee 'yawn' trains with carrots. Example....don't lock nodes in stage one and use a node timer multiplier like forts use to hold and capture.

I roam most of the time and when I see geared premade herdlings away from their comforts...one can notice some lack 1v1 skills. By busting city balls, maybe all classes can be viable and learn other playstyles instead of running for cleave cover.

Good thing Cities are an hour a day poison. Cities are supposed to be the crown jewel to this game. All playstyles to the game should be celebrated and not treated as handicaps.

Dear devs...rethink! Cheers.

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Telen
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Re: Any chance for pugs vs pugs in Cities?

Post#79 » Fri May 22, 2020 12:00 pm

Draugris wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 2:37 pm
Yep i have the same impression reading this thread with the only addition that there are people with this mindset on either faction posting here.
Its hard to claim youre good and not that youre just good at using m4 at the same time when your mmr is 1300
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Banjomissen
Posts: 66

Re: Any chance for pugs vs pugs in Cities?

Post#80 » Fri May 22, 2020 12:35 pm

Josewales wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 11:33 am
I don't think pugs are the problem. Bust up the meta melee 'yawn' trains with carrots. Example....don't lock nodes in stage one and use a node timer multiplier like forts use to hold and capture.

I roam most of the time and when I see geared premade herdlings away from their comforts...one can notice some lack 1v1 skills. By busting city balls, maybe all classes can be viable and learn other playstyles instead of running for cleave cover.


Dear devs...rethink! Cheers.
That's actually a good idea and a way to counter some of the issues players are facing in cities.

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