Re: The Great Healer Debate - Armor vs. Wounds
Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 12:48 pm
The War Private Server
https://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/
https://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38181
Just wondering if you think anything has changed with the changes to morale in oRvR. Would be very curious to hear your take on it.Omegus wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 5:25 pm Perspective: RR82 Zealot, mostly pug and organised WB play in ORvR and Cities. Don't take this as being good advice for 6v6 or for anything other than the Zealot career.
For ORVR wounds is a no-brainer. You will be hit by every kind of damage from every source and by stacking armour you make yourself weaker to BWs and Engis who during any form of siege (attacking and defending) will be your main source of damage received.
For cities things are very different. The biggest threat to the Zealot is the order melee train (which works very well for the few groups able to actually pull it off). The composition of this melee train varies but it always involves at least one White Lion for the super strong armour debuff. The BW are usually bombing and I'm not standing near them and the Engineers... lol. Slayers, IBs, ASW (scary), WHs, etc, all form part of the train. To work out whether I would be better off stacking wounds or armour taismans in city I did a spreadsheet to work out what kinds of armour mitigation each class is likely going to do against me and worked out my EHP vs physical damage with armour talismans and then with wounds taismans. Wounds talismans won every time except vs something that had about 350 WS and no extra way of ignoring armour (I consider this to be the "baseline"). Note all calculations assumed I was debuffed by a WL because I likely will be.
This is the results: https://i.imgur.com/tx0ki4a.png. If anyone spots any errors in calculations please let me know so I can amend it. I *think* everything is correct but there are always things in this game that can catch you out. In addition, I know very little about ASW so had to piece together the spec based from Fenryl's posts (Assault stance plus double WS tactic). I have no idea if they stack extra WS on top as well; it seems they could come close to the cap if they wanted to.
The other thing to factor into this is that while damage mitigation increases your EHP, it can also be used to increase your effective heals. Based on a LOT of experience with city sieges I've found that the wounds + healing from me and other sources is enough to keep me alive long enough to force the enemy to switch target (especially if I'm kiting them away from the rest of their WB) or just keep me alive full stop. Usually when I die it's because I got hit by so many people that no amount of healing will help and/or the WB is wiping anyway (or I was half asleep and f**ked up... the usual reason tbh). The wounds also help out with getting tagged by a BW aoe, WH bullets, the token Swordmastrer deciding to hit me, etc.
The difference between armour talis and wounds talis is so small that even if it was a slight advantage for the armour talis it's still not IMO worth paying 4x-5x the price per talisman for a set of +180s.
Honestly for a Zealot I don't think it changes much at all. Personally I'm rarely if ever being hit by insta-death levels of morale (the rest of the WB going in first? they are). It'll either be the usual pressure of damage from random sources (BW/Engi AOEs) or being picked out as a primary target for a melee train or Engi snipe assist. I'm one of the last to go in anywhere. Same applies for cities too - everyone else is getting morale on them (unless I'm positioned like an idiot... which happens) and my biggest source of incoming damage is the melee train.
Just wondering if you think anything has changed with the changes to morale in oRvR. Would be very curious to hear your take on it.
Interesting thoughts. How would a zealot go about stacking toughness? I assume we're keeping the renown points in heal crit and futile strikes. Going the talisman route would mean we're losing out on wounds though, and I'd be hard pressed to give up the AP proc from Vanquisher. So, I'm not sure that I'd be willing to mix sets to try and stack toughness bonuses.Omegus wrote: ↑Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:29 pmHonestly for a Zealot I don't think it changes much at all. Personally I'm rarely if ever being hit by insta-death levels of morale (the rest of the WB going in first? they are). It'll either be the usual pressure of damage from random sources (BW/Engi AOEs) or being picked out as a primary target for a melee train or Engi snipe assist. I'm one of the last to go in anywhere. Same applies for cities too - everyone else is getting morale on them (unless I'm positioned like an idiot... which happens) and my biggest source of incoming damage is the melee train.
I'm more interested to see what the final state of the SW will be. RSW and ASW both got buffs and the old ASW was already a pain for us...
If anything I think toughness builds became far more viable (assuming you can still maintain good heal crit) as they will mitigate all non-morale damage and their big counter of morale damage just got nerfed.