Rvr is not made to handle this many players

[ProudGinger]

Been playing for a little while and it seems to me the rvr aspect of the game is not made to handle that many players during siege. After a certain amount of defenders in a keep it is almost impossible to break through and capture that keep. There is multiple flaws in the system and everyday it seems the pattern is the same. X amount of attackers attack, fail, then half of them disconnect (or xrealm), making it really easy for the defenders to counterattack and lock the zone. Or same situation but instead of logging, the attackers all move to a different zone with a 0star keep, and by the time that keep is at 2 star and ready for a zone siege, the previous zone has been captured and the opposing faction can defend creating the same exact scenario as before. I don't mind whining and I see a lot of it on the forum but at least i'll try to give some solution to the problems I'm seeing.

1. Make the doors wider. Not only do we have to fight against the defenders, we also have to wiggle our way through our own players not moving forward in the doorway. They go in, hold the line and stand there, or backpedal stopping the entire zerg from moving forward into the keep and there is nothing we can do about it because of character collision (which is amazing btw, don't want it removed completly to solve that problem, but removed from our faction). Mix 100+ trying to get in a keep, the defending force funnelling, aoeing all at the same place, the 10-20 (or more) tanks that choke and stop moving forward, having to wiggle to get past those choking tanks while taking thousands of dmg every sec, lag, etc. I feel the more people there is, the worst it is for the attackers. By making the doors wider, more people could move into the keep and maybe the aoe wouldn't all be focused on the same spot.

2. Change postern into doors. You click on the postern, and you try to move only to be stuck on your own teamates because you all spawn on the same pixel (character collission again, maybe remove it for your own faction?) How about changing those into doors(same size as we have now) that open when the main door is open.

3. If none of those options work, add new ways to get into the keep. Once both main door are open, you can bring supplies to a drop off point inside the enemy keep wall and after a certain amount it creates a ramp (siege tower) that gives access to the second floor of the keep making it harder for the defending faction to defend. Something like the ramp in gate of ekrund scenario (destro side).

4. Everything is small. The terrain that leads to the keeps are small and full of debris. Mix in all the afker, trees, pillars, terrain that is not wide and that you can't climb (too steep) and you end up with a hard time placing the ram on the keep. Again removing the character collision for our own faction would fix that, or maybe only remove it for the persons bringing the siege? It's also frustrating trying to save the ram (or other siege equipment) from the defenders only to be stuck among your own force trying to flee also.

Again those are recommendation, those recommendation would cost a ton of ressource and time to be functionnal and might be impossible to achieve and I understand that. I also understand that the team is not paid to do this and it's not a huge game studio fixing all these bugs and able to make those huge overhaul change to that old game. I'm just venting a bit because it is getting frustrating to log in, play a few minutes only to see the same problems that is happenning everyday. Takes the fun away from a really enjoyable game. It just doesn't feel normal for 175 defenders to be able to hold 300+ attackers with very minimal casualties.

[EsthelielSunfury]

Unless we got a source or the mouth of one of the original lead designs, we have no clue as to what the original intent of the game design was - how many players that is. All of these RvR(vR) games advertise the same thing "Hunderds of players in sieges", so I doubt your initial point holds true.

1. I agree with making the main door just slighly wider, in fact it is wide enough in some Keeps/Forts and seems to be really really narrow on some others. I'm not too sure why, maybe a lorewise reason, maybe just for the sake of difference. A more uniform approach would be appreciated, but it's probably a bit of too much work for something that players can fix with better realmwide communication.

2. If I'm not mistaken, Reikwald is the one with postern being an open entryway and if you're a Destro main you probably have a nice opinion about that Fort in particular. I wouldn't be against it at all, it just seems like another can of worms to open.

"The entryway on the postern is too lengthy"
"It's just another funnel now, bring back postern doors"

You have to consider the tools available on postern pushes such as AoE knockdown by someone going in first, or a BO/SM AoE punt to clear it for allies. You cannot do those things anymore if you make it open.

3. This is a slippery slope for morning raids and if you've played long enough in these hours and you know that despite there being less, people are spreading out and not reading region chat for bottom funnel. Having another siege point in the keep is just going to trivialize most attacks by a long stretch with a possible exception being Forts. Then again, non-primetime Forts are dropping like flies. I completely disagree.

4. This game becomes nothing short of trivial by any removal of collision, friendly or otherwise. The overall terrain is just a limit of the game being designed that way. Badmoon Hole in Black Crag is notorious for this.

To be fair, in any game that relies on besieging as a design, 175 inside can easily hold 300. It feels really off to be able to do it in this game, especially considering all of them are actual players and not AI, but we know quite a few are either AFK, or just playing semi-mindlessly for their invaders.

[Draugris]

All of the suggestions would mean basically a rework of the keeps in visuals and animations. I have no idea whether that would be doable at all from a technical point of view, bringing new assets to the client etc. But even if it is, it would be a tremendous amount of work. Idk if that would be realistic given the limited resources in form of development time a small team of volunteers has to their disposal.

[TreefAM]

Removing any sort of collision will kill the game, what's the point of flanking someone if their tanks can just phase through to the backline.

[Aurandilaz]

disable spawning inside keep if either outer or inner door is hit

enable a portal from warcamp to keep, which allows 1 person per minute to teleport, but it will start consuming keep rank, about 10? teleports and keep rank drops or something.
So defenders, who no longer can make a mad suicide dash at keep and "just release lol, we'll spawn inside anyway", would have to organized into an actual blockade breaking warbands who can keep the lines open or coordinate a rush to clear postern routes. Melees on both sides would be busy fighting at posterns, either trying to block movement or clear movement paths.
And as for the portal, you will be allowed the chance to "eazy" access to keep defence, but it might harm your own realm effort if you decide to use that option as it will start deranking your own keep.

[TreefAM]

Maybe if a certain % of outer is taken down. Say 20% and you can't respawn in the keep anymore to stop that moronic ram suicide strategy.
The deranking sounds cool, it will make 4star keeps an easier nut to crack.

[Starx]

>disable spawning in the keep. Having literally no punishment for feeding/dying when outer is up as a defending faction is just retarded plain and simple.
>nerf oil back to where it was, tanks should not be dying on ram to just oil with proper healing (this alone will make sieges go 30 minutes faster when its 300v300)
>24 AoE limit is why pushing chokes is cancer, go back to 9 or at least 12. Let realms with AAO have a 24 player limit but when its even numbers its just cancer. Whens the last time you ever saw a tank wall?


There you go pushing keep isn't cancer anymore and all of this was at some point implemented or changed in the game, it's nothing new. I'd love to see a siege/RvR rework with new mechanics, assets etc... but we need solutions that realistically can be implemented sooner than later.

[Vayra]

About numbers it was intended for on live. On Norn we did occasionally get keep sieges with 800+ players which would often crash the zone/server when the attackers pushed an inner door funnel. So I'd say the maximum numbers they aimed for in a single zone/keep was at most like 300 people a side.

[EsthelielSunfury]

>nerf oil back to where it was, tanks should not be dying on ram to just oil with proper healing (this alone will make sieges go 30 minutes faster when its 300v300)

You haven't played with Graffer on Order side, the legend is ramming alone with oil above him. Not saying the damage isn't crazy, but it's certainly doable with good healers knowing the tank is going for it.

[Akalukz]

The more people in a keep defending = the greater amount the resources for the opposing realm is worth. The 5 star keep zone lock is a viable solution, just not realistically attainable.